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DanTurksGhost

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#15 : December 18, 2009, 10:28:17 AM

Also if the rumors about Morris not actually getting to choose his own O and D co-ordinators is true then at least he had the balls to get rid of them when he thought they weren't working.

It's not a rumor.

Capt_Chaos

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#16 : December 18, 2009, 10:29:22 AM

I couldn't agree more about the instant gratification thing too...but in all honesty to me Morris made just one too many mistakes and I don't think he's right for this organization. I'd rather the Glazers hit the reboot once more and get the right coach...not the highest paid highest profile coach...I want the right coach to lead this team

Higher paid coaches are usually paid more money because they are better at what they do...

Doesn't mean they're going to win the franchise a championship...Marty and Norv can atest to that


higher paid coach at 9-7 or lower payed coach at 1-15, you chose!

Higher paid coach who flip flops winning seasons with easier schedules or a New coach who could come in to make a team a Superbowl contender year after year by breaking the mold and reforging it and then earns his big payday?

At the end of the day it's about winning the big game.. not having a wining season and not seeing a playoff berth. If we need a few years of pain to achieve that then yes.. I'll take a 1-15 coach at this time, but I won't put up with it forever.

we had a coach that won "The Big Game" and we fired him.  you could wait 10 seasons and Rah wont win a SB


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#17 : December 18, 2009, 10:27:28 AM

That depends on a lot of things though Incognito.. 1) what are the Glazers actually planning? Are they trying to reduce costs to make the team more attractive for a sale? 2) Would any coach really want to come here having seen the lack of willingness for the Glazers to actually shell out money recently? 3) Is Gruden a HC yet? 4) Is the "Plan" actually on track and can Morris and Dominik convince the Glazers that it is?

Yeah i know it depends on those things. I think the stars will align.

Nicodemus

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#18 : December 18, 2009, 10:26:12 AM

He gets another year. You cannot realistically not give him a chance to turn it around. If he stinks after 2 seasons then he goes. If every team ditched thier new coach after his first season then teams like Dallas would never have won a Superbowl as Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in his first season.

Jimmy Johnson was given a bad team and he made it better....Morris made an average team even worse

Excellent point. �Shall we go over the good and bad moves:
Bad moves
Five year contract for Michael Clayton
Hiring of offensive coordinator
Hiring of defensive coordinator
Letting all the veterens go with no plan on who will start (not fully his fault, but he did not correctly evaluate the talent on the bench)
Having a QB circus in the preseaon with no starter in sight (fully shown by the comments on the board few believed in either Lefty or Clown, but no way anyone else was starting)
Getting Cromwell who has gone on IR without playing (again, not his fault but not a good move)
Poor coaching of mechanics of Johnson - he has gone from playing in the first game setting his feet, squaring his shoulders, and throwing the ball to throwing off his back foot. �Makes a big difference in delivery and is partically responsible for the INTs he is throwing.

Good moves
Potentially drafting Freeman as a franchse QB (may work out)
Stroughter has been an exceptional 7th round pick (credit Morris although Dominque has more to do with this one)
Trading for Kellen Winslow - he has had a rebirth in Tampa with solid playing.
Err, any others anyone?

On the fence (neutral)
Miller, Moore, Fulton - not much with them and EJ Biggers is also injured

Overall, the bad outweighs the good by a large margin.

I would say ditching Bates and Morris taking over the D a good point. The D has actually turned up to play since he did that. If anything it actually shows he can run the D, and if in an ideal world he was D co-ordinator this year instead of HC I think most of us would be quietly happy. Also if the rumors about Morris not actually getting to choose his own O and D co-ordinators is true then at least he had the balls to get rid of them when he thought they weren't working.

Nicodemus

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#19 : December 18, 2009, 10:22:35 AM

That depends on a lot of things though Incognito.. 1) what are the Glazers actually planning? Are they trying to reduce costs to make the team more attractive for a sale? 2) Would any coach really want to come here having seen the lack of willingness for the Glazers to actually shell out money recently? 3) Is Gruden a HC yet? 4) Is the "Plan" actually on track and can Morris and Dominik convince the Glazers that it is?

DanTurksGhost

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#20 : December 18, 2009, 10:24:01 AM

Good moves
Potentially drafting Freeman as a franchse QB (may work out)
Stroughter has been an exceptional 7th round pick (credit Morris although Dominque has more to do with this one)
Trading for Kellen Winslow - he has had a rebirth in Tampa with solid playing.
Err, any others anyone?

Firing two questionable coordinators he didn't go out and hire in the first place?

DanTurksGhost

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#21 : December 18, 2009, 10:26:07 AM

That depends on a lot of things though Incognito.. 1) what are the Glazers actually planning? Are they trying to reduce costs to make the team more attractive for a sale? 2) Would any coach really want to come here having seen the lack of willingness for the Glazers to actually shell out money recently? 3) Is Gruden a HC yet? 4) Is the "Plan" actually on track and can Morris and Dominik convince the Glazers that it is?

1) Doubtful.
2) It depends... there are positives, like a bunch of draft picks with 3 in the first 40 or so.
3) Nope.
4) The Glazers are involved in the plan, outlined the plan, so they understand exactly where it stands.

AcuraT

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#22 : December 18, 2009, 10:19:40 AM

He gets another year. You cannot realistically not give him a chance to turn it around. If he stinks after 2 seasons then he goes. If every team ditched thier new coach after his first season then teams like Dallas would never have won a Superbowl as Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in his first season.

Jimmy Johnson was given a bad team and he made it better....Morris made an average team even worse

Excellent point.  Shall we go over the good and bad moves:
Bad moves
Five year contract for Michael Clayton
Hiring of offensive coordinator
Hiring of defensive coordinator
Letting all the veterens go with no plan on who will start (not fully his fault, but he did not correctly evaluate the talent on the bench)
Having a QB circus in the preseaon with no starter in sight (fully shown by the comments on the board few believed in either Lefty or Clown, but no way anyone else was starting)
Getting Cromwell who has gone on IR without playing (again, not his fault but not a good move)
Poor coaching of mechanics of Johnson - he has gone from playing in the first game setting his feet, squaring his shoulders, and throwing the ball to throwing off his back foot.  Makes a big difference in delivery and is partically responsible for the INTs he is throwing.

Good moves
Potentially drafting Freeman as a franchse QB (may work out)
Stroughter has been an exceptional 7th round pick (credit Morris although Dominque has more to do with this one)
Trading for Kellen Winslow - he has had a rebirth in Tampa with solid playing.
Err, any others anyone?

On the fence (neutral)
Miller, Moore, Fulton - not much with them and EJ Biggers is also injured

Overall, the bad outweighs the good by a large margin.

Incognito

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#23 : December 18, 2009, 10:18:41 AM

There will be some big-name coaches available. Therefore, I think Morris will walk the plank.

DanTurksGhost

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#24 : December 18, 2009, 10:16:19 AM

This team is a mess, but the mess isn't all the doing of Coach Morris. Earlier in the year, based on what I knew going into this season, I'd have said that he'll be back without a doubt. Now, I'm not as confident that he will be retained.

Capt_Chaos

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#25 : December 18, 2009, 10:14:09 AM

While I was not expecting playoffs this season even if Vince Lombardi and Don Shula were coaching, you still have to show something. We've been in our share of winnable games. Bobby Petrino won 3 games without even finishing the season for a dreadful Falcons team in 2007. I don't see why Morris shouldn't have been able to win as many games as Bobby Petrino.
This is where I'm at. It's hard to support Morris when he makes as many bone-headed decisions as he does.


exactly, when a coach uses 2 challenges in the first half and never once waited for the replay before throwing the flag that tells you he has no control over this team.


Nicodemus

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#26 : December 18, 2009, 10:14:21 AM

I couldn't agree more about the instant gratification thing too...but in all honesty to me Morris made just one too many mistakes and I don't think he's right for this organization. I'd rather the Glazers hit the reboot once more and get the right coach...not the highest paid highest profile coach...I want the right coach to lead this team

Higher paid coaches are usually paid more money because they are better at what they do...

Doesn't mean they're going to win the franchise a championship...Marty and Norv can atest to that


higher paid coach at 9-7 or lower payed coach at 1-15, you chose!

Higher paid coach who flip flops winning seasons with easier schedules or a New coach who could come in to make a team a Superbowl contender year after year by breaking the mold and reforging it and then earns his big payday?

At the end of the day it's about winning the big game.. not having a wining season and not seeing a playoff berth. If we need a few years of pain to achieve that then yes.. I'll take a 1-15 coach at this time, but I won't put up with it forever.

MBF

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#27 : December 18, 2009, 10:12:32 AM

While I was not expecting playoffs this season even if Vince Lombardi and Don Shula were coaching, you still have to show something. We've been in our share of winnable games. Bobby Petrino won 3 games without even finishing the season for a dreadful Falcons team in 2007. I don't see why Morris shouldn't have been able to win as many games as Bobby Petrino.
This is where I'm at. It's hard to support Morris when he makes as many bone-headed decisions as he does.

Feel Real Good

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#28 : December 18, 2009, 10:11:38 AM

I couldn't agree more about the instant gratification thing too...but in all honesty to me Morris made just one too many mistakes and I don't think he's right for this organization. I'd rather the Glazers hit the reboot once more and get the right coach...not the highest paid highest profile coach...I want the right coach to lead this team

Higher paid coaches are usually paid more money because they are better at what they do...

Doesn't mean they're going to win the franchise a championship...Marty and Norv can atest to that


higher paid coach at 9-7 or lower payed coach at 1-15, you chose!

Object of the game and season is to win championships...if you're satisfied with just a winning record then by all means....
Exactly. I'm ready for option #3.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

DanTurksGhost

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#29 : December 18, 2009, 10:09:35 AM

it made him the winningest coach in Buccaneer history.

That depends on how you define "winningest". Tony Dungy's winning percentage here is higher than Jon Gruden's. In addition, Tony had only one losing season out of six fir a failure rate of 17%, Coach Gruden had three losing seasons out of seven, a failure rate of 43%.
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