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ALong13

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#45 : January 02, 2010, 06:19:54 PM

if we could get rid of Ward, I'd be fine with a Caddy/Spiller duo, but I don't see that happening for some sad reason...so I expect to draft elsewhere...


Detrimental

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#46 : January 02, 2010, 06:46:24 PM

Well what does Okung do that Penn doesn't? He isn't an upgrade regarding run blocking so it's a moot point to dump Penn for an unproven guy.

Well there's a chance he won't suck, something Penn can't stop doing.
Penn doesn't "suck". This year he just isn't a good run blocker like we're used to seeing in the past few years. However, his pass protection skills are the real deal. And if you ask me, what is the hardest job for a LT? It's protecting the QB's blindside with pass protection and this year he's been stellar in that regard. We don't get much success from running plays from his side but the situation could be worse. And the run block part isn't just him, the whole offensive line has been whiffing, not finishing blocks through the whistle, or blocked the wrong guy.


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#47 : January 02, 2010, 06:55:42 PM

What is the best player was a punter, the best one to come along in 20 years . . . do you take him with the #5 pick?

What if the best player were a center . . . do you take him?

This argument has been put forth before, and I frankly think it's silly.  If you could show me when those instances you have offered has happened in any draft, I'd like to see it.

Maybe if people thought about as Best IMPACT Player Available, that would make more sense to some folks.

I think it could happen this draft with Berry.  In the Bucs' scheme, I just don't think a safety is all that important.  Not worth the #5 pick in the draft.
As to best IMPACT player, that's on the right track . . . but it ignores the other points I made.  For example, WR might be an impact position, but since WRs are widely available in FA and via trades, and because historically good or even great ones have been found beyond R1, it lessens the urgency of spending a high R1 pick on a WR.    So just say BIPA also ignores some of the factors that should go into the pick.

I'm not really arguing with you, just trying to make the point that--as you know--the "best" in BPA has many nuances.

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#48 : January 02, 2010, 07:03:00 PM

What is the best player was a punter, the best one to come along in 20 years . . . do you take him with the #5 pick?

What if the best player were a center . . . do you take him?

This argument has been put forth before, and I frankly think it's silly.  If you could show me when those instances you have offered has happened in any draft, I'd like to see it.

Maybe if people thought about as Best IMPACT Player Available, that would make more sense to some folks.

I think it could happen this draft with Berry.  In the Bucs' scheme, I just don't think a safety is all that important.  Not worth the #5 pick in the draft.
As to best IMPACT player, that's on the right track . . . but it ignores the other points I made.  For example, WR might be an impact position, but since WRs are widely available in FA and via trades, and because historically good or even great ones have been found beyond R1, it lessens the urgency of spending a high R1 pick on a WR.    So just say BIPA also ignores some of the factors that should go into the pick.

I'm not really arguing with you, just trying to make the point that--as you know--the "best" in BPA has many nuances.
That is a misconception. Yeah, we are a zone base team but Raheem is NOT Monte Kiffin. He doesn't just drop seven back and watch the QB the whole game. Morris is aggressive, attacking, and is willing to take gambles. Berry can play either position in the secondary. We can use Berry to blitz, play coverage, or hell even drop him in the box. He can do everything so well, you can essentially create a scheme around his ability. Sorta how the Ravens and Steelers do with Reed and Troy P. Reed plays everything deep while Troy is usually in the box creating havoc. Berry is capable of doing both BUT much stronger in pass defense than run support.

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#49 : January 02, 2010, 07:11:09 PM

What is the best player was a punter, the best one to come along in 20 years . . . do you take him with the #5 pick?

What if the best player were a center . . . do you take him?

This argument has been put forth before, and I frankly think it's silly.  If you could show me when those instances you have offered has happened in any draft, I'd like to see it.

Maybe if people thought about as Best IMPACT Player Available, that would make more sense to some folks.

I think it could happen this draft with Berry.  In the Bucs' scheme, I just don't think a safety is all that important.  Not worth the #5 pick in the draft.
As to best IMPACT player, that's on the right track . . . but it ignores the other points I made.  For example, WR might be an impact position, but since WRs are widely available in FA and via trades, and because historically good or even great ones have been found beyond R1, it lessens the urgency of spending a high R1 pick on a WR.    So just say BIPA also ignores some of the factors that should go into the pick.

I'm not really arguing with you, just trying to make the point that--as you know--the "best" in BPA has many nuances.
That is a misconception. Yeah, we are a zone base team but Raheem is NOT Monte Kiffin. He doesn't just drop seven back and watch the QB the whole game. Morris is aggressive, attacking, and is willing to take gambles. Berry can play either position in the secondary. We can use Berry to blitz, play coverage, or hell even drop him in the box. He can do everything so well, you can essentially create a scheme around his ability. Sorta how the Ravens and Steelers do with Reed and Troy P. Reed plays everything deep while Troy is usually in the box creating havoc. Berry is capable of doing both BUT much stronger in pass defense than run support.

I see your point, and understand it, but I still don't agree.  I do think safety is an important position (and perhaps the best example for a 4-3 team is Sanders with the Colts)--but not important enough to take an undersized guy at #5.  I like Berry a lot, and in the middle-late part the first round I'd be for it.  But not in the top 5. 

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.

At least you're not arguing that the Bucs should take a WR with a top-5 pick!

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#50 : January 02, 2010, 07:30:11 PM

If we pass on Spiller, I would really like to see McCluster taken at the end of the 2nd round or in the 3rd.  He really impressed me today against Oklahoma State who hadnt allowed a 100 yard runner all season.  He has elite speed and excellent hands as a former receiver.

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#51 : January 02, 2010, 08:03:44 PM

we need DT/DE/WR/CB and DT needs to be picked 2A if not 1st. DE and WR are the next most important.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville
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