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alldaway

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#30 : January 06, 2010, 04:41:44 PM


Assuming you believe that there is only one true god and he is the Christian god, why do you think that so many other cultures throughout history have found it necessary to invent a god, or gods, of their own?


Zoroastrianism embraces the monotheistic beliefs, but in a slightly different direction.�

Judaism, Islam and Christianity all believe in the same, one God but simply disagree on the message from the same, one God ultimately.� It could be argued the biggest reason why many people embraced the monotheistic Abrahamic traditions was because they all were referencing the same, one God that Zoroastrianism was founded upon.� �There is a significant correlation with the rise of monotheistic beliefs and the decline of polytheism.

Christianity claims to be monotheistic, despite God referencing the presence of other deities (though, He could've just been sarcastically saying, "You see that piece of crap golden alligator in the palace garden?� You won't have him, or ANY OTHER piece of crap 'god' before Me).� And if I'm not thinking of something else (it's been a while since I blew the dust off my Bible) He says "We" a lot during the creation story, as well.

There's also the issue with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.� And the Virgin Mary, who comes in a distant but convincing #2 in the prayer department.� And the 149001577138184907853 saints that the religion employs.

In Christianity, there may be one dude with a throne atop His personal Mt. Olympus, but he sure has a lot of important folks up there with him.� The argument could seriously be made (and I'm sure it has been made) that Christianity is really polytheistic.

Followers of Judaism and Islam claim that Christianity is polytheistic due to the Trinity.  But as most Christians already know the Trinity is still one God ultimately.

A lot of modern day followers of Hinduism and Buddhism embrace monotheism as well which was not the case in the past. 

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#31 : January 06, 2010, 05:12:21 PM


Assuming you believe that there is only one true god and he is the Christian god, why do you think that so many other cultures throughout history have found it necessary to invent a god, or gods, of their own?


Zoroastrianism embraces the monotheistic beliefs, but in a slightly different direction.�

Judaism, Islam and Christianity all believe in the same, one God but simply disagree on the message from the same, one God ultimately.� It could be argued the biggest reason why many people embraced the monotheistic Abrahamic traditions was because they all were referencing the same, one God that Zoroastrianism was founded upon.� �There is a significant correlation with the rise of monotheistic beliefs and the decline of polytheism.

Christianity claims to be monotheistic, despite God referencing the presence of other deities (though, He could've just been sarcastically saying, "You see that piece of crap golden alligator in the palace garden?� You won't have him, or ANY OTHER piece of crap 'god' before Me).� And if I'm not thinking of something else (it's been a while since I blew the dust off my Bible) He says "We" a lot during the creation story, as well.

There's also the issue with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.� And the Virgin Mary, who comes in a distant but convincing #2 in the prayer department.� And the 149001577138184907853 saints that the religion employs.

In Christianity, there may be one dude with a throne atop His personal Mt. Olympus, but he sure has a lot of important folks up there with him.� The argument could seriously be made (and I'm sure it has been made) that Christianity is really polytheistic.

Followers of Judaism and Islam claim that Christianity is polytheistic due to the Trinity.� But as most Christians already know the Trinity is still one God ultimately.

A lot of modern day followers of Hinduism and Buddhism embrace monotheism as well which was not the case in the past.�

I've spoken with credible, tenured men of the church who could not tell me if the Trinity was one or three complete figures.  It's a very muddy subject.


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#32 : January 06, 2010, 05:18:13 PM

Other cultures did not invent a pizza of their own, they modified an existing recipe to their own taste. I'm finding it difficult to relate this analogy in any meaningful way to the subject at hand.


actually, id say the analogy works

Like you said, in all cultures pizza is basicallyy the same. Sauce, crust, toppings

And in other cultures god represents the same basic thing. Creator, beginning, and end of life destination

kevabuc

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#33 : January 06, 2010, 06:20:57 PM

Other cultures did not invent a pizza of their own, they modified an existing recipe to their own taste. I'm finding it difficult to relate this analogy in any meaningful way to the subject at hand.


actually, id say the analogy works

Like you said, in all cultures pizza is basicallyy the same. Sauce, crust, toppings

And in other cultures god represents the same basic thing. Creator, beginning, and end of life destination

Wars have been fought in the name of pizza, prices were gouged, profits were laid waste and believers cared not.

Pizza has been delivered unto thee, many times within 30 minutes with a guarentee of salvation if not.

Pizza was created in the image of the Lord God, at least upon adolescents with poor skin conditions upon thy face.

Pizza is the one true redeemer during times of hangoveredness.

Pizza is of the holy trinity including beer and Pepsi.

There are no pizza atheists in fox holes or dorm rooms.

\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.

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#34 : January 06, 2010, 06:22:51 PM

I personally believe people create idols to worship because they can control them.  I on the other hand, have no control over God.



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#35 : January 06, 2010, 06:27:01 PM


The basic premise of the thread is why does man feel a need to have a god. The pizza analogy fails miserably at the very question we're directing our attention towards. Give it up, please.

kevabuc

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#36 : January 06, 2010, 06:53:49 PM


The basic premise of the thread is why does man feel a need to have a god. The pizza analogy fails miserably at the very question we're directing our attention towards. Give it up, please.


Sorry Sparky, just having a little fun to feel good, kind of like pizza and God just make you feel good. They both nourish those people who believe in them.

The premise of this thread had an ulterior motive I believe, or it wouldn't have been limited to Christians. I believe most religions believe theirs to be the one true way, as can be said about non-believers.

But, here's my towel, I'm throwing it in.


\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.



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#37 : January 06, 2010, 06:58:47 PM

Now see what you've done? It's spreading:

http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?topic=52422.0



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#38 : January 06, 2010, 07:02:24 PM

The premise of this thread had an ulterior motive I believe, or it wouldn't have been limited to Christians. I believe most religions believe theirs to be the one true way, as can be said about non-believers.

Actually, the motive was to exclude the Christian god, so perhaps we could have a discussion about religion's role in society and the human psyche without anyone having their personal beliefs threatened and resorting to arguing from emotion as opposed to logic.

But no harm, no foul. People take this stuff (and by that I mean this entire web site) way too seriously.

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#39 : January 06, 2010, 08:54:17 PM

I'll give my two cents here.  I usually stay out of these topics for the reasons you stated but I'll jump in here.  I personally believe that its a result of the fact that man was created to live inside the divine presence, so since the time of his being removed from it, men have sought to re-establish a connection to a higher power.  There are studies (I've even seen a thread here on the topic I think) showing that there is a part of the brain that is specifically involved in religious experience.  In other words, there is something in mans brain that points toward a need to connect with the divine. 

Since man has lost that connection due to sin entering the human race and man being cut off from God, he is now left to his own devices to fulfill that drive or urge in him to connect to something higher than himself.  The difference between what these other religions and what the Jews of the Old Testament experienced as well as what Christians have experienced since the day of Pentacost is an actual revelation of the divine to man, so that he is no longer left to his own devices to figure out what that urge and drive in him is, but rather now can see first hand why that drive exists in him.  Namely, because he was created to have that need met, by continual connection and fellowship with the one true God. 

One addendum to my explanation would be to point out that according to my belief (and the christian faith in general) the Jews of old also did not have that direct connection but instead were dealt with outwardly by God, but in an often visible, miraculous way.

So thats my though on the subject anyway.

kevabuc

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#40 : January 06, 2010, 09:09:03 PM

Now see what you've done? It's spreading:

http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?topic=52422.0


Pizza IS contagious and there is no known antidote.

\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.

kevabuc

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#41 : January 06, 2010, 09:13:36 PM

The premise of this thread had an ulterior motive I believe, or it wouldn't have been limited to Christians. I believe most religions believe theirs to be the one true way, as can be said about non-believers.

Actually, the motive was to exclude the Christian god, so perhaps we could have a discussion about religion's role in society and the human psyche without anyone having their personal beliefs threatened and resorting to arguing from emotion as opposed to logic.

But no harm, no foul. People take this stuff (and by that I mean this entire web site) way too seriously.


It seemed that you were singling out Christians, I may have taken it wrong, but if you substitute another religion the premise works the same. It just seemed that the thread was being set up to point out the defieciencies in the Christian faith alone.

My bad if this was not the case. I may have eaten too much pizza.

\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.

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#42 : January 06, 2010, 09:18:57 PM

I don't know, I didn't take it that way.  I just figured he wanted to hear the Christian perspective.  So thats what I gave.

alldaway

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#43 : January 06, 2010, 11:37:38 PM


Assuming you believe that there is only one true god and he is the Christian god, why do you think that so many other cultures throughout history have found it necessary to invent a god, or gods, of their own?


Zoroastrianism embraces the monotheistic beliefs, but in a slightly different direction.�

Judaism, Islam and Christianity all believe in the same, one God but simply disagree on the message from the same, one God ultimately.� It could be argued the biggest reason why many people embraced the monotheistic Abrahamic traditions was because they all were referencing the same, one God that Zoroastrianism was founded upon.� �There is a significant correlation with the rise of monotheistic beliefs and the decline of polytheism.

Christianity claims to be monotheistic, despite God referencing the presence of other deities (though, He could've just been sarcastically saying, "You see that piece of crap golden alligator in the palace garden?� You won't have him, or ANY OTHER piece of crap 'god' before Me).� And if I'm not thinking of something else (it's been a while since I blew the dust off my Bible) He says "We" a lot during the creation story, as well.

There's also the issue with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.� And the Virgin Mary, who comes in a distant but convincing #2 in the prayer department.� And the 149001577138184907853 saints that the religion employs.

In Christianity, there may be one dude with a throne atop His personal Mt. Olympus, but he sure has a lot of important folks up there with him.� The argument could seriously be made (and I'm sure it has been made) that Christianity is really polytheistic.

Followers of Judaism and Islam claim that Christianity is polytheistic due to the Trinity.� But as most Christians already know the Trinity is still one God ultimately.

A lot of modern day followers of Hinduism and Buddhism embrace monotheism as well which was not the case in the past.�

I've spoken with credible, tenured men of the church who could not tell me if the Trinity was one or three complete figures.  It's a very muddy subject.

Because the trinity is three separate figures but still ultimately one.  The concept is not foreign as in Hinduism Brahman is everywhere and everything and yet still one.  The only difference is the creator Brahma only created the universe, but that is all he did and will ever do until the universe is destroyed.


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#44 : January 07, 2010, 04:40:02 AM


The basic premise of the thread is why does man feel a need to have a god. The pizza analogy fails miserably at the very question we're directing our attention towards. Give it up, please.


The answer is quite simple. Religion is needed to explain the unknown, maintain control, and ease the fear of death.

Human drive seems to be pointed to the direction of finding meaning and acquiring knowledge. The meaning of life is a question people of all cultures have tried to answer since the beginning of humanity. People need to make sense of the world in order to live and fully fuction. Religion fills these gaps that are unexplained. By filling in the gaps in our knowledge and understanding, religion satisfies the need for control. And religion also provides an illusion of control. When you feel that you may not have control over something, you place belief that God has that control. And you exercise this illusion through prayer and rituals.

And of course, everyone has a fear of death. Death is an unknown. No one knows what happens at death. So we create stories that help to provide meaning and control. Religion gives us heaven, hell, purgatory, reincarnation, etc, etc, etc. The stories are all different depending on the religion, but they all lead to the same thing...immortality in one way or another. Death is the ultimate threat to our sense of control. And the reality of this fear gets reinfored all throughout life. As we go through life we witness more and more death. We watch our pets die. We watch friends or reletives die. We read about other people dying all the time in the media. We emphesize it with horror movies. So this fear is being constantly reinforced. And people look for coping mechanisms to deal with this anxiety that eventually everyone dies. So religion provides an afterlife. It provides an illusion of control. We pretend that death is only a new beginning. And that when we die we simply cross into a different realm. That is a lot easier to deal with than simply facing a reality where when we die, our existance ends.

What is also interesting to look at is how people can view God so differently. Some people view god as a loving, father-figure with a caring relationship that helps as a guide through life. Others view God more as angry and or even vengeful. The terrorists that crashed planes on 9/11 viewed Allah as very angry. That's a pretty vast difference. God is also viewed differently from one religion to another. Psychologists argue that how we view god is a result of our upbringing and social programming. There is correlation that when a child is raised in a highly religious family, he will also be highly religious. And the family views God in a very similar way. On the other hand, a child raised in a non-religious family tends to not be very religious later in life.

With all this being said, it's also important to look at other side of the religion arguement. Many people claim to have had near-death experiences like seeing the tunnel of light. Some people claim to have seen ghosts suggesting there is some realm after death. Skeptics claim praying is simply a placebo effect; however, studies have been done where praying improved the health of a group of sick patients even though they didnt know anyone was praying for them. So there is some strange phenomena out there that currently has no scientific explaination.
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