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nitey

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#15 : January 09, 2010, 12:41:28 PM

Garv,

I'm happy with McCoy OR Okung. What I don't want to see is Berry or McCain. Not that I don't agree with those that think these guys are going to be great pros, but because our needs on the defensive/offensive lines are greater. I feel that defensive line is our primary need, but while I'm sure that others will disagree that the offensive line is next, the stats from last season speak for themselves. Something drastic needs to happen on the offensive line.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

SCBUCFAN

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#16 : January 09, 2010, 12:42:57 PM

I think Suh is once in a decade DT.  I have never been one for trading up but he is worth the risk.  Look at the stats between Texas vs Nebraska and Texas vs Alabama games this year.  Alabama has one heck of a defense with quite a few high NFL draft picks.  The one stat I like the most is Nebraska gave up .5 yards per rush to Texas on 38 carries while Alabama gave up 2.9 yard per rush on 28 carries.    If Nebraska had any kind of offense they would have been an even better defense.  Suh has a nonstop motor and he shows up in big games.  Good teams build from the OL and DL out.  I think there is definately a drop off to Mccoy.  Mccoy and Oklahoma gave up 3.6 per rush to Texas.   Not that one game shows everything but it is an interesting comparison.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/gameflash/2009/12/05/42027_teamstats.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/gameflash/2010/01/07/42227_teamstats.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/gameflash/2009/10/17/40294_teamstats.html

SonnyCrockett

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#17 : January 09, 2010, 12:46:42 PM

It might say something about those teams, but you can't hang anything on individual players from that.

Apples and oranges.

David4ROTY

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#18 : January 09, 2010, 12:47:39 PM

One player cant determine YPC


ryan24

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#19 : January 09, 2010, 12:48:30 PM

I realize the LT position is extremely important but thought Penn covered it more than adequately. Apparently not in the eyes of some.


Ever watch Penn run block?

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

Biggs3535

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#20 : January 09, 2010, 12:49:22 PM

I realize the LT position is extremely important but thought Penn covered it more than adequately. Apparently not in the eyes of some.


Ever watch Penn run block?

It's ugly.


ryan24

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#21 : January 09, 2010, 12:50:36 PM

OK. Again, I'm obviously coming from the uninformed when it comes to drafting but isn't getting WO help more important right now if we're typing about offense?
I realize the LT position is extremely important but thought Penn covered it more than adequately. Apparently not in the eyes of some.
Hopefully PR can weigh in on this one.
There are two schools of thought. Do you help your young quarterback by fixing your wide receivers to give him more targets to throw to or by fixing your offensive line to give him better protection in the passing game and a better running game to take the pressure off of him? My personal thought is that wide receivers only touch the ball 6-7 times a game, at best. Offensive linemen affect every play on offense.

WR is also down the list of general needs of an offense. OL....particularly LT....is much higher up the food chain. That doesn't mean the team doesn't need WRs...just that they can be obtained either other ways or in other years. LT....not so much.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

Garv

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#22 : January 09, 2010, 02:13:38 PM

OK. Again, I'm obviously coming from the uninformed when it comes to drafting but isn't getting WO help more important right now if we're typing about offense?
I realize the LT position is extremely important but thought Penn covered it more than adequately. Apparently not in the eyes of some.
Hopefully PR can weigh in on this one.
There are two schools of thought. Do you help your young quarterback by fixing your wide receivers to give him more targets to throw to or by fixing your offensive line to give him better protection in the passing game and a better running game to take the pressure off of him? My personal thought is that wide receivers only touch the ball 6-7 times a game, at best. Offensive linemen affect every play on offense.

WR is also down the list of general needs of an offense. OL....particularly LT....is much higher up the food chain. That doesn't mean the team doesn't need WRs...just that they can be obtained either other ways or in other years. LT....not so much.

I know a great LT is very hard to find, hence so few ever being available in FA. I agree that psotion is second only to QB in importence on offense.
I confess to not knowing Penn was that lacking, lacking enough to possibly forgo other needs in replacing him.
Does Okung impress you guys like say, Jake Long of the Dolphins a couple of years ago? How average is Penn, below, above. I know this is about opinions but I certainly thought our OL was better than it played this year too. Of course I blamed a lot of the problems on the scheme changes thoughout the off-season AND regular season.

We are all here because we are NOT all there.....
As always, GO BUCS!!!

David4ROTY

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#23 : January 09, 2010, 02:33:25 PM

i think scheme change was a huge setback and also the loss of sears.  If sears comes back heatlhy next year and we stick to the scheme i think or OL could be our strong suit again.  This year there was way too much change


nitey

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#24 : January 09, 2010, 02:42:53 PM

I think Okung would be in the top 10, perhaps the top 5 in most draft years. I think he compares favorably to Jake Long or to Joe Thomas - both of which were top 5 tackles coming out of college. What I like about Okung was that he played his senior year and had another highly productive season. I think Okung would be as close to a 'sure fire' pro as there is in the draft. Whoever drafts him is going to be set at the left tackle position, barring injury, for the next 10 seasons. If the Bucs draft him AND Sears comes back to his 2008 form, even with Trueblood at RT - we SHOULD have a dominate line next season. JMO.


From ESPN:

Overall Football Traits

Production   1   
2006: (9/8) Took over as starting right tackle against Kansas and held onto the starting job the remainder of his true freshman season. 2007: (13/13) Started all 13 games at offensive tackle 2008: (13/13) Started all 13games at left tackle

Height-Weight-Speed   2   
Possesses prototypical left tackle height and bulk. Also shows great straight-line speed for his size.

Durability   1   
34 consecutive starts heading into his senior season in 2009.

Intangibles   2   
Hard worker with good leadership skills. A consistent performer throughout his career.

Offensive Tackle specific Traits

Awareness   2   
Adequate-to-good awareness. Picks up blitzes and stunts. Finds his assignment as a second-level run blocker. Will provide help to the inside when he can. Knows how to hand off defenders when flowing to one side as a zone blocker.

Toughness   1   
Impressed by his toughness. Works to the whistle and plays with a mean streak. Has a mauler mentality in the run game.

Pass Protection   1   
Plays with great balance, mirror-and-slide ability and awareness in pass pro. Feet are a notch below elite. Gets set quickly in pass pro. He is capable of consistently getting set wide and shutting down the perimeter versus speed rushers. Shows long arms and big hands, which he uses well to keep separation and sustain.

Run Blocking   2   
Takes solid angles and shows good initial pop. Has long arms and a strong upper body to control defenders. He's big and shows above-average strength as a drive blocker. Consistently reaches the second level on time and shows the ability to hit the moving target. Only knock is that he occasionally struggles to lock on and sustain, which can be rectified with better hand usage in most instances.


Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

David4ROTY

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#25 : January 09, 2010, 02:58:10 PM

the more i think about it, the more i like Okung.  We drafted our franchise QB last year, lets give him the franchise LT for years to come.  McCoy could be great, but I would rather have a elite LT and get a serviceable clogger dt in the 2nd, than getting McCoy in the first and keeping an average at best Penn.  Penn can pass block, i give him that, but his run blocking is not upto par.  With Okung, you can get both and we can have a serious upgrade. 

1) Okung
2a) Arrelious Benn
2B) Dan Williams


Would be happy if the draft started like this


nitey

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#26 : January 09, 2010, 03:05:40 PM

Morris,

Funny, same thing I just said in another thread. The more I'm looking at Okung, the more I like him and the idea of having an elite LT prospect along the line. Should Sears come back, this line could be exceptional. However, even without Sears, I suspect Zuttah would play better having a better player next to him.

Getting onboard the Okung bandwagon myself!

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

David4ROTY

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#27 : January 09, 2010, 03:12:43 PM

Nitey-

Haha, yeah i just say that in the Berry/McClain thread.  You got me to start thinking about the big picture.  Of course, everyone wants a playmaker thats why Offensive Linemen are never sexy picks for number 1's.  But the more i start to think about it, we can find quality at other rounds to fill our needs.  You get a chance to add a player that will be your franchise LT for years to come.  Rarely do top 10 OFF linemen not pan out, but if you look at DL, that's a different story. 

We aren't looking to push the pocket so much so DT doesn't have to be a super star.  They just need to be a player.  A person to clog the middle, stop the run and free up our backers. 

Got to say Nitey, your posts as of late have been the most insightful.  Glad to see someone that gives thoughts to their post rather than saying.."This guys is a beast cuz look, 12 sacks this year!"

Also would like to add, Okung is a senior.  That extra year of exp will only be icing on the cake :)


dalbuc

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#28 : January 09, 2010, 03:14:16 PM

BTW, I am seeing some people now putting Anthony Davis and Okung on the same level but I have never seen Davis (Rutgers) play.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

SonnyCrockett

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#29 : January 09, 2010, 03:24:28 PM

OL is a safer pick than DL in most cases.

I think Okung is quicker, leaner, and more athletic, whereas Davis is bigger and heavier. Some scouts like Bruce Campbell as much as Okung too.
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