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nitey

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#30 : January 09, 2010, 03:30:13 PM

Morris,

Thanks for the kudos, I tend to post more in the off season that I do during the season mainly because there is more potential for interesting conversation. I guess my thoughts are that if we can fix the offensive line (yes, I know we've been attempting to fix it for years now) the offense potentially can play enough better to keep the defense off the field more. I feel throwing Berry or McClain at the defense doesn't significantly improve the defense enough considering the premium pick.

You don't often get a chance for an elite LT, when you do, you should SERIOUSLY consider whether any other player that is available is worth passing on him. I was very upset when Joe Thomas was picked by Cleveland at #3 a few years ago when I was convinced that the Bucs were targeting him. We have another chance to get that franchise LT and if Suh is gone, and he probably will be, we have to think about whether it's better to have McCoy/Berry/McClain/Haden or that premium LT.

To me, right now, unless I see something that indicates that there are problems with Okung, I'm starting to favor him as our pick. Again, I wouldn't be unhappy with McCoy, but if we picked Berry or McClain, I would seriously worry about this teams direction.

JMO.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#31 : January 09, 2010, 03:34:41 PM

The only problem is, I think that our FO's eyes might be closed and think of Penn as serviceable for now, and the DL more pressing.  I won't be unhappy with McCoy, like you said, I think that any pick will be good that they make, but Okung would be the best "INVESTMENT".

Besides, we can still fill holes with other picks.  Hell, if we want to stop the run, Mount Cody will be there in the 2nd.  This draft is so deep, and I'm glad that we got that extra 2nd rounder. 


Garv

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#32 : January 09, 2010, 04:00:33 PM

BTW, I am seeing some people now putting Anthony Davis and Okung on the same level but I have never seen Davis (Rutgers) play.

You scared me there for a second. At least I wasn't thinking of the USC running back of more than a few years ago......

We are all here because we are NOT all there.....
As always, GO BUCS!!!

ryan24

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#33 : January 09, 2010, 04:20:23 PM

Those that say that Okung could be an excellent choice as a LT and that the Bucs could use a franchise type LT are correct. However, those that do not believe the Bucs need a playmaker at UT or don't need to push the pocket via the middle of the DL are mistaken. At some point that player needs to be found.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

nitey

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#34 : January 09, 2010, 04:22:37 PM

I'm not sure I agree with that. The FO took Freeman last year when most here wanted almost anyone else. I don't think they are unwilling to make the unpopular choice. I believe that they see the same problems that the fans do, the difference is that the FO has access to information that the fans don't so hopefully they make the more 'informed' choice.

What I see as the potential problem, is that the FO/Glazers will also be looking at the fans/empty seats and may figure that they need to make the popular choice or make a splash choice by making an expensive trade for Suh in order to create fan excitement. Taking a offensive tackle is not going to excite the fan base. Hell, taking a 'franchise QB' last year caught mostly boos.

I firmly believe that Detroit will take Suh if the Rams don't. And I also firmly believe that the Ram's won't pass on the chance to take the best QB prospect for the draft, much as Oakland had to take Russell. However, the Rams know that the Bucs have that extra 2nd round choice and that Detroit has no need for a QB, so they will probably be open to a trade down.

Frankly, I think the trade option will be there, but I hope that the Bucs don't take it. The Bucs probably can have Suh for the trade down and a their high 2nd round pick (and maybe a 5th or 6th pick as well) and Suh may well excite the fan base, but I think it would be a big mistake for this franchise that needs every single pick this year to fill needs on this team.

Our fans want to see a dominate defense again, after all that's been our identity for years. But I'm wary of the 'Big Daddy Wilkerson' factor at play here and if we make that trade for Suh and he turns out to be nothing special, we lose a lot. Even if Suh is the next coming of Warren Sapp, we still need to address the offensive line and shucks, we just traded that top pick to the Rams - so maybe we have to live another seen with Penn and Teller (I mean Trueblood). If that doesn't kill Freeman, chances are decent that it WILL kill Morris and Dominik.

I feel we need to make smart choices in this draft, and the smart choice, even if McCoy is available, may be to pick up that offensive tackle we've been missing and fill out this offensive line and make that a almost certain strength for our QB to play behind.

Even with Suh, our defense is missing a lot of key pieces in order to get better. If we fix our offensive line with Okung, our running game gets better, even average receivers get more time to get open and the quarterback, who has some accuracy challenges has more time to make his throws. If the offense plays better, the defense is on the field less.

I think what I would love to see the FO do on draft day is 1) Okung and our next 4 picks being DL/DL/WR/CB not necessarily in that order. I think that's about the best we can do and it would do a lot to address our biggest weaknesses.

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David4ROTY

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#35 : January 09, 2010, 04:34:55 PM

Nitey -

What I was talking about in regards to Okung not sounding like the pick is this...Fans didn't want Freeman, but they all pretty much knew that Rah would take him.  This year, everyone thinks that it will be between Berry or McCoy, assuming that Suh is gone. 

Another thing I was wondering about, is if they do get Okung, what do we do with Penn?  Has he ever played RT?  He's not a good run blocker so it would weaken right side running and lower the value of Davin. 

Would it be more beneifical to keep Trueblood another year due to his run blocking and maybe put Penn up for trade?  We won't get a huge amount for him, but if we do get Okung, I don't really see a place for him and if we can get value I say do it. 

As for the rest with your remaining 4 picks going DL/DL/WR/CB, I can see us doing that.  Though for best value, I think the rotation would more than likely be this: DL/WR/CB/DL.

DL seems deep this year and we need a playmaker WR.  This could be barbers last year, if he plays, and I'm not convinced Mack is the answer for CB2


nitey

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#36 : January 09, 2010, 04:37:53 PM

Ryan,

You're correct, at some point we do need to get that UT that can push the pocket. But the same can be said for getting that premium LT. We've had a revolving door at left tackle for years since Gruber retired, and guess what, he was the last LT that we spent a 1st round draft choice on.

Both positions are equally rare, and drafting in the top 5 is risky enough that I wouldn't want to compound that risk by offering up another premium draft choice to take that risk. To make that jump from the 3rd position to the 1st position is going to cost you the 35th player in the draft. That another basically elite prospect. If you consider that a good LT is as rare as a good DT, then it makes the most sense to draft the offensive tackle if the DT isn't there.

Then there is the cost issue, that 1st choice in the draft is going to want a lot more money than the 3rd player does. If the Glazers are indeed in financial trouble, then the chances of trading up for Suh are also smaller.

We can't have both and since we can't have both, then you take the one you can and do your best to address the other position later. Maybe the defensive tackle taken later in round two isn't as good as Suh, but then again he's probably a lot better than Hovan or Simms. And as I mentioned in the prior post, Suh alone isn't going to fix the defensive line, we need 2-3 more players to what we have. On the offensive line, we have 2-3 players already in place (Faine/Joseph and possibly Sears). We are closer to having a dominate offensive line than we are in having a dominate defensive line. And lets not forget, that Sapp was at his best when we got Rice to play along side him, who is going to play Rice's role next to Suh?

Finish the offensive line.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

SonnyCrockett

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#37 : January 09, 2010, 04:40:15 PM

I would definitely be happy with Okung as the pick, but I don't think he "finishes" the o-line by any stretch.

You say Suh alone won't fix the d-line, and the same thing applies to Okung and the o-line.

nitey

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#38 : January 09, 2010, 04:47:59 PM

Morris,

I'm not sure if Penn would be able to play RT or not, nor am I aware if Penn has any trade value. Since Penn is basically a RFA I think, the value would be slight. However, if we took Okung and put him at LT, we could still keep Penn as a backup in case of injury. Also, I would pit Penn against Trueblood and maybe Dotson in order to get the best RT play we can. Perhaps, Penn can even move inside to LG if Sears can't come back. I don't know. I just think we are closer to fixing the offensive line than we are at fixing the defensive line, so I would rather throw the premium pick in that direction.

As far as the rest of the choices, I don't have a road map, you basically need to see how the draft unfolds and attempt to get the highest player available at your position of need. If that happens to be a WR at 2a and he's the best value, then that's the way I'd go. I just think that we need 2 high choices on the DL, 1 high choice on the offensive line, a wide receiver and a cornerback in the first 5 choices. Even with that, you have to figure you're not going to hit on all 5 choices (you'll be lucky to hit on 3 of them) so you'll still going to have a talent challenged team in 2010.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

nitey

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#39 : January 09, 2010, 04:51:54 PM

PT,

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Okung 'finishes' the Oline. That's frankly impossible with 'false start' playing RT and the uncertainty surrounding Sears. However, Faine and Joseph have been solid along the line, Okung would be another solid player and if Sears came back to his old self, our line would definately be a strength of our team. If we were lucky enough to find a servicable RT in FA, we could have a very strong offensive core for years.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality
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