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Itchalot

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: March 02, 2007, 09:32:04 PM

OK I have two legitimate questions:

1) If the deal was actually done and then nullified by the retirement, do the Bucs have the option of going forward with the trade anyway and keeping the rights to Plummer?

2) If the trade is nullified then that means Plummer retired as a Bronco with some years remaining on his contract.   So not only is he giving up the salary for the upcoming years of the contract, but doesn't he also have to pay back some signing bonus money?  And how much?

3) Would the Broncos still own his rights if he decides to unretire?  I think I remember that the Lions owned Barry Sanders' rights.  If he had unretired he would have had to go back to the Lions.  So therefore Plummer does not get to hold out for a year and then become a free agent does he?


Fresh

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#1 : March 02, 2007, 09:35:23 PM

I just hope we don't give away a draft pick for a QB that has brain farts.


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redbeard10

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#2 : March 02, 2007, 09:35:47 PM

So which two are the legit questions?



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#3 : March 02, 2007, 09:36:24 PM

OK I have two legitimate questions:

1) If the deal was actually done and then nullified by the retirement, do the Bucs have the option of going forward with the trade anyway and keeping the rights to Plummer?

The Bronco's can still trade the rights I think

2) If the trade is nullified then that means Plummer retired as a Bronco with some years remaining on his contract. So not only is he giving up the salary for the upcoming years of the contract, but doesn't he also have to pay back some signing bonus money? And how much?

Yes he will be paying money back

3) Would the Broncos still own his rights if he decides to unretire? I think I remember that the Lions owned Barry Sanders' rights. If he had unretired he would have had to go back to the Lions. So therefore Plummer does not get to hold out for a year and then become a free agent does he?

He is contracted thru 2009, retired or not


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#4 : March 02, 2007, 09:38:57 PM

1) once a player says he is going to retire, then it would be like saying ill give you a 4th rounder for a handshake.  It would be a pointless trade at this point.  But yes it could happen

2)yes he will have to give back the rest of the signing bonus that was to be added to this year and the followign years on his contract

3)yes the broncos have the rights to his contract, their for he can not come back next year and play for another team just like you said the barry sanders situation


alldaway

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#5 : March 02, 2007, 09:40:46 PM

1.  Not sure but why lose a 4th round pick for a player that may not come out of retirement?  It is a gamble and I think the Broncos would love to obtain a draft pick for a player that is retired.

2. Plummer's contract is structured in a unique way.  I do not recall recently a retired player having to pay back a signing bonus when they decide to retire as that type of guaranteed money is up front unless  you are talking about a roster bonus which is a different type of guaranteed money compared to a signing bonus. It is possible through arbitration that a retired player may have to pay back a roster bonus if they decided to retire abruptly after they received that roster bonus.

3.  Yes the Broncos would own his rights if he unretired.  Sanders sitaution I believe went to arbitration and it was concluded that the Lions still retained his rights becuase he was the last team he was under contract before he retired.


redbeard10

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#6 : March 02, 2007, 09:46:19 PM

2. Plummer's contract is structured in a unique way.  I do not recall recently a retired player having to pay back a signing bonus when they decide to retire as that type of guaranteed money is up front unless  you are talking about a roster bonus which is a different type of guaranteed money compared to a signing bonus. It is possible through arbitration that a retired player may have to pay back a roster bonus if they decided to retire abruptly after they received that roster bonus.
I believe that Sanders also had to pay back some of his signing bonus to the Lions, and the Broncos are notorious for going after bonuses.

alldaway

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#7 : March 02, 2007, 09:50:28 PM

2. Plummer's contract is structured in a unique way. I do not recall recently a retired player having to pay back a signing bonus when they decide to retire as that type of guaranteed money is up front unless you are talking about a roster bonus which is a different type of guaranteed money compared to a signing bonus. It is possible through arbitration that a retired player may have to pay back a roster bonus if they decided to retire abruptly after they received that roster bonus.
I believe that Sanders also had to pay back some of his signing bonus to the Lions, and the Broncos are notorious for going after bonuses.

It's possible but if a player intends to stay retired it is hard to go after the remaining signing bonuses.  Sanders wanted to keep that signing bonus money from the Lions, come out of retirement AND hit free agency (later on he offered to pay back some of that signing bonus so the Lions would not own his rights).

Basically the Lions did not agree with Barry's stance and they felt they owned Barry's rights and the arbritrator ruled in their favor.




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#8 : March 02, 2007, 10:22:20 PM

Gee.  I basically got called an idiot for believeing this as well.  http://bbs.pewterreport.com/index.php?topic=6266.0

According to these more knowledgable fans, Plummer didn't offically retire, he only threatening to retire to queer the deal with the Bucs or any other team for that matter so the Broncos will be forced to either keep him on as a $5 million backup or release him outright so he can sign with the Texans and Kubrick.


redbeard10

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#9 : March 02, 2007, 10:23:41 PM

Gee.  I basically got called an idiot for believeing this as well.  http://bbs.pewterreport.com/index.php?topic=6266.0

According to these more knowledgable fans, Plummer didn't offically retire, he only threatening to retire to queer the deal with the Bucs or any other team for that matter so the Broncos will be forced to either keep him on as a $5 million backup or release him outright so he can sign with the Texans and Kubrick.
Or trade him to the Texans and KUBIAK.

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#10 : March 02, 2007, 10:26:31 PM

Gee. I basically got called an idiot for believeing this as well. http://bbs.pewterreport.com/index.php?topic=6266.0

According to these more knowledgable fans, Plummer didn't offically retire, he only threatening to retire to queer the deal with the Bucs or any other team for that matter so the Broncos will be forced to either keep him on as a $5 million backup or release him outright so he can sign with the Texans and Kubrick.
Or trade him to the Texans and KUBIAK.

Apparently the Texans won't give up any picks.


Itchalot

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#11 : March 02, 2007, 10:35:54 PM

1.  Not sure but why lose a 4th round pick for a player that may not come out of retirement?  It is a gamble and I think the Broncos would love to obtain a draft pick for a player that is retired.

2. Plummer's contract is structured in a unique way.  I do not recall recently a retired player having to pay back a signing bonus when they decide to retire as that type of guaranteed money is up front unless you are talking about a roster bonus which is a different type of guaranteed money compared to a signing bonus. It is possible through arbitration that a retired player may have to pay back a roster bonus if they decided to retire abruptly after they received that roster bonus.

3.  Yes the Broncos would own his rights if he unretired.  Sanders sitaution I believe went to arbitration and it was concluded that the Lions still retained his rights becuase he was the last team he was under contract before he retired.
1 -the only reason would be if the Bucs wanted to gamble that Plummer would not stay retired. They would then own his rights for a 4th round pick.  They could then trade Plummer, but thats pretty risky because Plummer could come back and play but be a locker room cancer.  The Bucs could cut him for nothing but be out the 4th round pick.

2- I'm sure that you have to pay back a prorated part of your signing bonus if you retire. Ricky Williams owed about $8.6 mil to the Fins, and the Fins won that in a court judgment, but he unretired to avoid paying it.   I believe if you can't play because of injury such as with Quarles then you don't have to pay it back.  But Plummer is healthy.   Since he screwed the Broncos out of a pick, I would think they will go after their money and they'll get it.  


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#12 : March 02, 2007, 10:44:21 PM

your not getting it.  all he has to do is say he will retire if traded and no team is going to give up a pick for that kind of risk.  the broncos will either still have to pay him or waive him.


Itchalot

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#13 : March 02, 2007, 10:57:30 PM

Yeah I understand that is what Plummer is doing.  I thought I read that Plummer had filed papers or something, but I doubt filing papers is irreversible.  But the Broncos are not out of options. I don't think they owe Plummer any roster bonus, so unless they need the cap room (about $2 mil?) they can hang onto him until the final cutdown day if they want.  They won't owe him a dime unless he makes the final roster. That screws up Plummers chances.  He's not going to come to a new team on the day before the season and be a starter.  That may be why he is warming up a little to the idea of coming down to Tampa and checking things out.

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