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burger40

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#15 : January 20, 2010, 03:17:54 AM

one thing you do have to be careful of with a guy like suh is that he will have to adjust a lot to the NFL. Using his superior strength with very few pass rushing moves works just fine in teh NCAA but NFL OL aren't going to be beaten by Suh if he doesn't learn to use pass rushing moves.

That said I still think he's better than mccoy because his hand technique and footwork are phenomenal and he seems to be more athletic. Like another poster said, the combine will reveal a lot.

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#16 : January 20, 2010, 10:22:24 AM

Hype is a dangerous thing around draft time, and right now Suh is getting a lot of it.

Sounds like hype alright... for McCoy.

Suh's 'hype' is at least based on production not potential. Anyone who has seen them both play can easily see Suh is the better player.

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#17 : January 20, 2010, 11:13:21 AM

one thing you do have to be careful of with a guy like suh is that he will have to adjust a lot to the NFL. Using his superior strength with very few pass rushing moves works just fine in teh NCAA but NFL OL aren't going to be beaten by Suh if he doesn't learn to use pass rushing moves.

That said I still think he's better than mccoy because his hand technique and footwork are phenomenal and he seems to be more athletic. Like another poster said, the combine will reveal a lot.

Gotta disagree ... The combine shows us how fast these guys run around in shorts  ..  In some ways the combine has nothing to do with football ..  Just ask Sabby

A note to another poster .. I disagree about Suh ..  Most of his damage comes in the 2nd half .. But the other points about both players were good


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#18 : January 20, 2010, 11:35:23 AM

I think Suh would be great in a 3-4 as a DE. He plays upright(kind of like Richard Seymour) but would attract attention to allow blitzing LB's. I just don't know how he will be at the pro level in a 4-3. He is going to have to play lower with all of the traffic in the middle. I like the idea of trading down with Seattle and getting a 2nd. Then we could get Haden, and with 3 high 2nd's and a high 3rd, we could get DT, DE,WR, and then go anywhere with the high 3rd. Maybe another DT. That makes more sense in building this team to me.

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#19 : January 20, 2010, 12:40:37 PM


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 Â  Suh plays at a very high level at the start of the game, then burns out.  .
 Â    McCoy plays with a high intensity from start to finish and due to his technique and speed, often penetrates into the backfield.    Also with proper coahing, he may become an elite player like Anthony McFarland as listed on one scouting report.


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I have to differ with these comments. Suh dominates the WHOLE game! Have you watched him? Besides, he is double and triple teamed the WHOLE game. The same can't be said about McCoy. I strongly doubt McCoy would do well if he was constantly doubled and triple teamed, which he will get in the pros.

Also your comparison about McFarland is scary. If you compare McCoy to him you are already resigning him to be a bust. NO WAY McFarland would be worth the 3rd pick!

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#20 : January 20, 2010, 02:45:39 PM

Suh will not be able to do what he does in college at the pros. He doesn't have the technique to penetrate at an NFL level. The only thing he does in college is bull rush and throw weaker lineman to the side. NFL lineman are leaps and bounds stronger than their college counterparts, which will limit Suh's ability to rush. Suh has been stonewalled by single lineman and he does not always get double or triple teamed. I've watched a couple of his games and he is a great college player but I don't see it translating to the NFL.

One arm tackles on RB's? On who in our division will he do that to? Deangelo? Pierre? Mike Bell? Turner? Stewart? Yea right. I've seen him stonewalled at the LOS and getting no penetration but then throwing the lineman off to the side to make a tackle. I just cant see that happening in this league. McCoy is by far and away the better disruptor and the person we need to help us get more production from our entire D-Line

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#21 : January 20, 2010, 02:56:27 PM


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 Â  Suh plays at a very high level at the start of the game, then burns out.  .
 Â    McCoy plays with a high intensity from start to finish and due to his technique and speed, often penetrates into the backfield.    Also with proper coahing, he may become an elite player like Anthony McFarland as listed on one scouting report.


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I have to differ with these comments. Suh dominates the WHOLE game! Have you watched him? Besides, he is double and triple teamed the WHOLE game. The same can't be said about McCoy. I strongly doubt McCoy would do well if he was constantly doubled and triple teamed, which he will get in the pros.

Also your comparison about McFarland is scary. If you compare McCoy to him you are already resigning him to be a bust. NO WAY McFarland would be worth the 3rd pick!

Your editing of my comments are prejudicial and not accurate.  You really did not understand what I was trying to say and at no time was I choosing between the two players.  Suh is a great athelete and of course he plays hard the entire game, just not at the same intensity level from what I've seen.  Because of this, he does not always show the backfield penetration, but because of his talents, he still dominates the LOS.  He should INSTANTLY provide help against the run while getting a sack here and there.  Most poeple already know Suh fights off double teams and holds the LOS (probably should have stated that better).  Based on what I've seem. he sometimes lacks penetration - not due only due to just being doubled teamed like you state - but maybe because he simply gets tired and without other pass rush moves .  Also, I am in know way knocking Suh or his abilities, if only the Bucs could land him!

As for McCoy, you're sadly mistaken.  He does play aginst double teams as well, but not as often as Suh though.  Just watch some of the tapes. Because of McCoy's speed and agility, I would think it may be harder for teams to maintain a double team on a consistant basis and provides more penetration.  If you don't feel McCoy is a good DT, then you disagree with just about every scout and analyst in the nation.  Finally, the McFarland statment was written in a scouting report I read and had stated that in my comments.  And one thing I did not mention is that most scouting reports state McCoy has a higher ceiling for improvement!!

However, I feel either player would be a great pick in the draft.  Also stated in another post, it would be awesome to land both of them (but way too unlikely) and think it would be nice to try to pick another DT somewhere else in the draft too.  That could, but doesn't have to be Price since there are others I like with projections later in the 3rd and 4th Rounds.

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#22 : January 20, 2010, 03:01:09 PM

Suh will not be able to do what he does in college at the pros. He doesn't have the technique to penetrate at an NFL level. The only thing he does in college is bull rush and throw weaker lineman to the side. NFL lineman are leaps and bounds stronger than their college counterparts, which will limit Suh's ability to rush. Suh has been stonewalled by single lineman and he does not always get double or triple teamed. I've watched a couple of his games and he is a great college player but I don't see it translating to the NFL.

One arm tackles on RB's? On who in our division will he do that to? Deangelo? Pierre? Mike Bell? Turner? Stewart? Yea right. I've seen him stonewalled at the LOS and getting no penetration but then throwing the lineman off to the side to make a tackle. I just cant see that happening in this league. McCoy is by far and away the better disruptor and the person we need to help us get more production from our entire D-Line

Suh won't be able to throw around NFL lineman... Wanna bet?  Ever see Reggie White play?

Suh has plenty of technique and athleticism to go with his unreal strength.



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#23 : January 20, 2010, 03:04:00 PM

Suh = Reggie White?

Not yet, not even by a long shot... if he's got it in him, maybe in 3 years.

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#24 : January 20, 2010, 03:05:14 PM

Suh = Reggie White?

Not yet, not even by a long shot... if he's got it in him, maybe in 3 years.

Didn't say he was Reggie White. Just saying guys like Reggie White regularly tossed around NFL o-lineman.

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#25 : January 20, 2010, 05:51:44 PM

Nobody even knows how good Ndamukong Suh can even be yet because he played in a 2-gap scheme at Nebraska that had him read and react, rather than a 1-gap scheme that McCoy ran at Oklahoma where he had to contain/shoot his gap and be much more aggressive. If they changed places, Suh would have shown he is unstoppable and McCoy would have looked like one of our DTs did.
That's my thoughts as well....

Many don't realize that Suh's job was to figure out the play and then attack.... McCoy was supposed to go through a gap right off the bat and attempt to disrupt with pressure up the middle.

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#26 : January 20, 2010, 07:08:25 PM

Suh will not be able to do what he does in college at the pros. He doesn't have the technique to penetrate at an NFL level. The only thing he does in college is bull rush and throw weaker lineman to the side. NFL lineman are leaps and bounds stronger than their college counterparts, which will limit Suh's ability to rush. Suh has been stonewalled by single lineman and he does not always get double or triple teamed. I've watched a couple of his games and he is a great college player but I don't see it translating to the NFL.

One arm tackles on RB's? On who in our division will he do that to? Deangelo? Pierre? Mike Bell? Turner? Stewart? Yea right. I've seen him stonewalled at the LOS and getting no penetration but then throwing the lineman off to the side to make a tackle. I just cant see that happening in this league. McCoy is by far and away the better disruptor and the person we need to help us get more production from our entire D-Line

Suh won't be able to throw around NFL lineman... Wanna bet?  Ever see Reggie White play?

Suh has plenty of technique and athleticism to go with his unreal strength.
I agree Madman. It seems people are suddenly saying "Suh won't do that in the NFL". If that's the case why should we assume McCoy will blow past OL in the NFL? Can we assume he will get more than 6 or 7 sacks he did in college? Remember he was in a defense that allowed him to shoot gaps but managed less sacks than Suh. I'm willing to bet if Suh gets in a similar scheme lined up on the outside shoulder of the guard like in our Tampa 2 he will dominate. Don't get me wrong I think McCoy is a fine player but suggesting he is better than Suh...I just don't see it. I will keep this post for the future and will be willing to eat crow for this if I'm wrong. Suh will be better!

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#27 : January 20, 2010, 09:34:58 PM

Nobody even knows how good Ndamukong Suh can even be yet because he played in a 2-gap scheme at Nebraska that had him read and react, rather than a 1-gap scheme that McCoy ran at Oklahoma where he had to contain/shoot his gap and be much more aggressive. If they changed places, Suh would have shown he is unstoppable and McCoy would have looked like one of our DTs did.
That's my thoughts as well....

Reggie White was a DE. He did move around to different spots but he was a DE. If Suh has the power of White, he will be a great player. I just am leary of trading a pick, that we really need, to get an interior lineman.

Many don't realize that Suh's job was to figure out the play and then attack.... McCoy was supposed to go through a gap right off the bat and attempt to disrupt with pressure up the middle.

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#28 : January 21, 2010, 01:49:02 PM

Suh = Reggie White?

Not yet, not even by a long shot... if he's got it in him, maybe in 3 years.

Didn't say he was Reggie White. Just saying guys like Reggie White regularly tossed around NFL o-lineman.

there's only been one guy like reggie white, ever.  there were supposed to be many, many "next reggie white"s and "next warren sapp"s, but they never materialized from the hype.

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#29 : January 21, 2010, 09:15:37 PM

One day it will happen, why not now! Suh could be it!
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