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Skull and Bones

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: March 01, 2010, 04:54:43 AM

only 23.  Suh's was 32.  Suh was also 12 pounds heavier.  Mayock calls this the best DT class he's seen in 8 years and says he loves Suh, reminds him of Kevin Williams and thinks he a pro bowl player but still insists that McCoy is even better because he is more disruptive in the passing game.


Nicodemus

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#1 : March 01, 2010, 05:03:59 AM

Not too worried, McCoy is more of a technique guy whereas Suh is mainly brute strength.

Skull and Bones

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#2 : March 01, 2010, 05:13:59 AM

does anybody know what Sapp did at his combine for bench for comparison sake.  Can't find it.  Did see that he ran a 4.69 40 and he maxed out at 525 on bench once.  I also rember Sapp winning the bench in one of those off season NFL skill competition shows.


JavaBuc

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#3 : March 01, 2010, 05:23:34 AM

Not too worried, McCoy is more of a technique guy whereas Suh is mainly brute strength.

What good is technique when the opponent is running the ball right up the gut at you?   That's the Bucs weakness.   A pass rushing DT is secondary, they need a big guy in the middle with brute force to shut down the run up the middle.

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#4 : March 01, 2010, 05:30:40 AM

Technique is better at shedding blocks, technique is better at finding the holes, technique is not relying on strength alone to win the battles up front. In all comparisons between Suh and McCoy, McCoy has been touted as the guy whose technique will serve him better in the long run, whereas Suh uses his strength mainly to throw people around. Will strength alone work against older and more experienced NFL OLine men, probably not, but strength and technique will. McCoy has been labeled a better all round prospect because he has more upside, he has technique and can build on strength currently Suh is all about strength but can he improve his technique?

As I said I am not worried, strength can be worked on. Good for Suh that he can lift small family cars but can he shed 2 NFL Oline men double teaming him on strength alone?

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#5 : March 01, 2010, 05:33:40 AM

If 2 linemen are blocking you, you have done your job already just by taking those 2 guys out of the play, so that doesn't matter much.   What matters is if McCoy is not strong enough, he will get flat out bulldozed on running plays regardless of "technique".  Technique comes into play on passing downs, not bull rush up the middle plays.   And again, that is where the Bucs are weak - stopping the run right up the gut.

Nicodemus

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#6 : March 01, 2010, 05:43:10 AM

So the guy doesn't put up massive numbers in a meat market that really doesn't have much to do about football? If a team sees that he needs a bit of conditioning he'll be a gym rat before the season and have the muscle to do what is needed. If his technique can cause 2 blockers to block him and he doesn't have to slow down while adding more bulk (muscle weighs more than fat) isn't that of more value to a team than a guy who has strength to occupy 2 blocker but mediocre technique to shed them to make the tackle?

don't get me wrong Java, I like Suh and i like McCoy.. I just don't see the issue on McCoy only lifting a weight x number of times compared to Suh. They are different players with different skill sets.. either would be better than Hovan/Simms, but Strength can be worked on more easily than technique and that's where McCoy currently is ahead of Suh.. his overall technique is better.

CyberDilemma

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#7 : March 01, 2010, 05:45:56 AM

Not too worried, McCoy is more of a technique guy whereas Suh is mainly brute strength.

What good is technique when the opponent is running the ball right up the gut at you?   That's the Bucs weakness.   A pass rushing DT is secondary, they need a big guy in the middle with brute force to shut down the run up the middle.


Roy Miller bench presses 500lbs., 625lb. squat and  375lbs. power clean. I would call that brute strength. By the way Miller had 6 more tackles last season than Sapp did his rookie year.

JavaBuc

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#8 : March 01, 2010, 05:46:38 AM

I just don't buy that McCoy is even close to as good as Suh.  McCoy is ok, but Suh is a monster.

JavaBuc

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#9 : March 01, 2010, 05:48:08 AM

By the way Miller had 6 more tackles last season than Sapp did his rookie year.

Wow.  So Miller must be better than Sapp then.   No need to draft a DT in that case.   Either that or stats can be spun to make a mediocre player like Miller look better than he really is.

Nicodemus

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#10 : March 01, 2010, 06:00:40 AM

Heh, the same could be said for Suh though Java.. wasn't Mandrich (spelling) on OT with raw strength to man handle people and medicore technique who everyone thought was going to be a huge talent.. only for him to bust out as his strength was next to useless against weaker (strength wise) players who flat out beat him with good technique?

you could look at Suh's stats and then spin it to make him look like the second coming, but it could just be down to a man with great strength man handling people of lesser footballing talent/ younger guys that pads his stats.

burger40

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#11 : March 01, 2010, 06:28:36 AM

Not too worried, McCoy is more of a technique guy whereas Suh is mainly brute strength.
i agree. we all knew suh had phenomenal brute strength with great agility but would be slower upfield and off the snap. i love suh and i think he is a little better than mccoy all around but as a pass rusher mccoy will probably be better simply because he is quicker off the ball.

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Feel Real Good

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#12 : March 01, 2010, 07:00:03 AM

A pass rushing DT is secondary, they need a big guy in the middle with brute force to shut down the run up the middle.
Hopefully we can find a "big guy" to replace Ruud.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

PWNASAURUS

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#13 : March 01, 2010, 07:04:01 AM

If 2 linemen are blocking you, you have done your job already just by taking those 2 guys out of the play, so that doesn't matter much.   What matters is if McCoy is not strong enough, he will get flat out bulldozed on running plays regardless of "technique".  Technique comes into play on passing downs, not bull rush up the middle plays.   And again, that is where the Bucs are weak - stopping the run right up the gut.
Do your posts only make sense after 3 am ET?


aquilus

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#14 : March 01, 2010, 08:10:18 AM

It seems like just as were a few years ago we will be falling right into this trap again.

If we dont get the guy we want we scramble to whatever second best we can find

We did it with Adams and  Dex Jackson. Lets not do this with the DT position.

If Suh isnt there @3 or we dont trade up and get him PLEASE dont zero in on McCoy just becase he is a body at a position of need.

I am telling you guys this guy is going to be a BUST. He a great kid and a good athlete and all but I dont see this guy being worthy of a top 3 pick

If I were Mark I wold look more toward Haden, Bryant, Berry, or hell even Bulaga/Davis. I think we are going to have a great deal of buyer remorse with McCoy

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