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swashbuccaler

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#15 : March 02, 2010, 11:52:25 PM

Why not..? Your acting like trading up 2 spots is some outlandish concept.. We did it LAST season.


Suh or bust, Dom. You make the call.

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#16 : March 02, 2010, 11:56:23 PM

Why not..? Your acting like trading up 2 spots is some outlandish concept.. We did it LAST season.

Trading up would probably cost us a 2nd + 3rd (maybe 4th). In this draft, that's basically a 1st and a 2nd.


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#17 : March 03, 2010, 12:02:15 AM

If we offered the Rams next years 1st and this years 1st, for thier 1st and thier 3rd, we'd have Suh and another pick this year.


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#18 : March 03, 2010, 01:53:52 AM

i understand picking up more picks, and the fact that the talent level is high in this draft. most teams hit % in the draft is still around 30% though. that means if the Bucs pick up 3 more picks, its only likely to yeild one more solid contributor at best. i say get the best player you can for those picks wether it be 5 or 15 picks. th amount of pick may increase your chances, but it has nothing to do with quality. if they trade them and get 5 quality players over 3 quality and 7nobodys in ten picks, which would you rather have? i think your being overly optimistic to expect both quality and quanity.



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The White Tiger

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#19 : March 03, 2010, 02:38:59 AM

Why not..? Your acting like trading up 2 spots is some outlandish concept.. We did it LAST season.

Trading up would probably cost us a 2nd + 3rd (maybe 4th). In this draft, that's basically a 1st and a 2nd.

What are you basing this on? If the Rams trade out of that spot it's because they've had it the past 3 drafts.

Calculate that: average guarantee (comes from the owners pocket and is not figured into the salary cap) is $30 million plus the prorated portion of the salary...that means the Rams could have over $100 million tied to 3 players....
That's a lot of cabbage.

If the Rams do this it will be for a 3rd rounder (or better to sweeten the pot) and possibly a QB capable of starting until Sam Bradford or Jimmy Clausen steps in.

The value chart has become a guideline, it's not being adhered to...so your idea of compensating trading up 2 spots doesn't seem to be rooted in fact. If the Rams trade down, they're going to find the pickings slim, but if they do trade down - this will be one of those rare times when the team below them has more leverage.

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yuccaneers

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#20 : March 03, 2010, 02:52:00 AM

Usually when trading away a pick in the top four of the second round it carries with it a first round pick the following year as part of the compensation. So unless a team is willing to come of a player i.e. Brandon Marshall and a draft pick in the third round or two lower second rounders it would be bad value for the Bucs to trade down and only get a third and fourth rounder.


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#21 : March 03, 2010, 03:02:52 AM

I still think wasting a 3rd round pick that will yield a 2nd round quality player this year to trade up to get Suh is a total waste of time. I'd rather let the cards fall for us at 3 and play the table then. If Suh is gone at 3, take McCoy, if McCoy is gone at 3 take Okung or McClain. No matter what you do at 3 you are going to get a total stud to play for you or you get a chance to play king maker for a team below you.

I know you really want Suh WT but trading up to get him is not in the Bucs best interest, the Glazers would shy away from the money involved first of all and the waste of a pick to move up when he might still be available at 3 is shameful.

If the Rams are THAT desperate to move out of top spot then they should give us a draft pick in compensation to help them out. We swap firsts and they give us a 4th... then we might be talking.

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#22 : March 03, 2010, 03:26:05 AM

Silly to think they'd pay us to trade, nic - Suh is worth something to us too...we simply have more leverage - that's different than saying the Rams have no leverege.

Suh's a once in a decade talent - there isn't a 2nd rounder that will give this defense instant credibility - Suh will.

Wish your plan were used for something more than building depth - but that's how you use low round picks - bench strength...unfortunately that strategy assumes you have starters....first.

We don't have one at the key spot on defense - no low round guys going to help with that requirement.

Therefore the way forwards very clear...

Go get Suh.

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#23 : March 03, 2010, 04:05:16 AM

Heh true WT, but it does highlight something though. It's the Rams that are desperate to move out of 1st pick, not us desperate to move up. We technically hold the cards and can call the bluff.

With us sitting in 3rd spot we are actually the kingmaker in this situation. The Rams want to trade out but I don't think anyone will bite as the cost is too much, the Lions want to move out but again the cost is high and I doubt many would want to trade up. However at 3 we hold a position of strength due to what might or might not be available. If the Rams buckle and take Bradford it leaves 1 round 1 QB left on the table, this is of interest to 3 teams below us. If the Lions take a DT it then leaves the best OT, 1 of the best DT's and the other round 1 QB still on the board.

Seattle and Washington both need OLine and QB. KC needs Oline and WR. If Okung is seen as the best player left on the table then Seattle and KC will be looking to move ahead of Washington to try and get the best Oline player. If QB is seen as a position of need for Seattle and are concerned that Washington may draft the QB over OLine they may want to move up above Washington to get the QB.

Now, the killer is if we move up to get Suh, the rams then get the 3rd position and once again hold all the cards. Ok we take Suh at 1, Detroit take McCoy and the Rams have thier pick of the QB's. That doesn't mean they will take a QB, it'll mean they'll play the table and see if they can move down again. In this scenario KC would be the ideal candidate, let KC move to 3 they take Okung or Bryant, Washington then takes the first QB leaving the Rams with a QB at 5. The Rams still get a QB but now have an extra 2 picks (maybe more).

I see the draft as a chance to get better players but I also see it as a great way to screw over your competitiors in the future. Why give a team like the Rams who are rebuilding at the same time as us more picks to get better faster than us? 6 years from now it could be that the Rams and the Bucs as the 2 best teams in the NFC and they contniue to beat us because we gave them a huge helping hand from the draft of the century.

My gut feeling is that we call thier bluff, we sit where we are and we stare them down, we don't NEED to move up, they are desperate to move down. If we do move up then it should be on our terms and our terms only, sure swap firsts but don't slap in a pick this year to sweeten the pot for them give them the carrot next year. Next years second should be ok. We shouldn't make anything easy for our competitors, likewise if we are at 3 and we feel that we can get better value for trading down a few spots then we should, we screw over another potential competitor by forcing them to foot a large contract and taking picks from them.

Getting great players is good for us but screwing over our competitors is even better. Football isn't just won on the field it's also won in the FO, forcing other teams to spend heavily to put them in a bad situation helps us, taking draft picks from them helps us, getting good football players helps us... doing all 3 makes us champions in the long run.

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#24 : March 03, 2010, 08:26:16 AM

You have to be active in Free agency as well as the draft...no way around it

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#25 : March 03, 2010, 08:34:53 AM

Seeing as how the Bucs have two picks within 10 slots of each other in the 2nd round, it would be great to trade down from 2.a. if no one we really want is there and pick up an extras in the 3rd or 4th. We won't end up missing much with the pick at 2.b.

The top of the second should still be loaded with talent

Agree 1000% no way you trade those 2nd picks. IMO those picks are key to the Bucs having a good draft and an excellence draft.

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#26 : March 03, 2010, 09:17:34 AM

The point chart means nothing. If the Rams decide to go with Bradford, they have everyhting to gain and nothing to lose by swapping picks with us. They'd still get the guy they wanted, and they'd get him for about 10 million less they would at #1. Whatever they got from us would just be icing on the cake.

We could offer then our 2nd round pick of next year's draft and they'd do it.....IF they decide they want to draft Bradford. I want Suh more than anyone, but if we can do it without losing any picks this year, that's the way togo.


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#27 : March 03, 2010, 11:34:10 AM

   Asolutely agree!! I would trade almost anyone on our current roster to help us move up or down and/or add draft picks.

The White Tiger

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#28 : March 03, 2010, 12:36:35 PM

Heh true WT, but it does highlight something though. It's the Rams that are desperate to move out of 1st pick, not us desperate to move up. We technically hold the cards and can call the bluff.

With us sitting in 3rd spot we are actually the kingmaker in this situation. The Rams want to trade out but I don't think anyone will bite as the cost is too much, the Lions want to move out but again the cost is high and I doubt many would want to trade up. However at 3 we hold a position of strength due to what might or might not be available. If the Rams buckle and take Bradford it leaves 1 round 1 QB left on the table, this is of interest to 3 teams below us. If the Lions take a DT it then leaves the best OT, 1 of the best DT's and the other round 1 QB still on the board.

Seattle and Washington both need OLine and QB. KC needs Oline and WR. If Okung is seen as the best player left on the table then Seattle and KC will be looking to move ahead of Washington to try and get the best Oline player. If QB is seen as a position of need for Seattle and are concerned that Washington may draft the QB over OLine they may want to move up above Washington to get the QB.

Now, the killer is if we move up to get Suh, the rams then get the 3rd position and once again hold all the cards. Ok we take Suh at 1, Detroit take McCoy and the Rams have thier pick of the QB's. That doesn't mean they will take a QB, it'll mean they'll play the table and see if they can move down again. In this scenario KC would be the ideal candidate, let KC move to 3 they take Okung or Bryant, Washington then takes the first QB leaving the Rams with a QB at 5. The Rams still get a QB but now have an extra 2 picks (maybe more).

I see the draft as a chance to get better players but I also see it as a great way to screw over your competitiors in the future. Why give a team like the Rams who are rebuilding at the same time as us more picks to get better faster than us? 6 years from now it could be that the Rams and the Bucs as the 2 best teams in the NFC and they contniue to beat us because we gave them a huge helping hand from the draft of the century.

My gut feeling is that we call thier bluff, we sit where we are and we stare them down, we don't NEED to move up, they are desperate to move down. If we do move up then it should be on our terms and our terms only, sure swap firsts but don't slap in a pick this year to sweeten the pot for them give them the carrot next year. Next years second should be ok. We shouldn't make anything easy for our competitors, likewise if we are at 3 and we feel that we can get better value for trading down a few spots then we should, we screw over another potential competitor by forcing them to foot a large contract and taking picks from them.

Getting great players is good for us but screwing over our competitors is even better. Football isn't just won on the field it's also won in the FO, forcing other teams to spend heavily to put them in a bad situation helps us, taking draft picks from them helps us, getting good football players helps us... doing all 3 makes us champions in the long run.

If the Bucs could sit and wait for a dominant DT - unlike any to come out in the last decade - in the second round I'd be with you.

The Rams aren't guaranteed any more success because they get an opportunity to draft one more 2nd or 3rd rounder - if the Rams can be enticed to trade out of what has become for them a very familiar and expensive spot they've held for the past three drafts, they can still get as good a QB late and they get to pay him a little less for picking later.

The same cannot be said for the Bucs - it's the confluence of the BPA fitting an area of GREATEST need - we gain more by drafting Suh than the Rams do by drafting Bradford/Clausen/McCoy....

Therefore we should trade more - and since they have financial motivation of a their owner still waiting to have his finances approved, and they've drafted D-Line with either the 1st or 2nd overall in the last 2 out of 3 drafts - things are expensive. It means they won't give the pick away, but they might just be willing to take a little less and still be able to get the guy they want at a position that allows them to conserve a little cash...

It is a trade that comes along once in a decade for a player that comes along once a decade - it's a perfect alignment -  Dominick must GO GET SUH!

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pewtergirl

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#29 : March 03, 2010, 05:44:02 PM

I'd like the bucs to get either McCoy or Suh, but not at the expense of trading away any of this years early picks...
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