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dalbuc

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#30 : March 04, 2007, 03:11:19 PM


Not really.  Bruce proved with McCardell that he will deal harshly with holdouts. ..you can bet that Bruce Allen will use every option available to him.


He has no options. If Plummer shows up and say "I want more jack than Garcia because over the last 3 years I'm way, way better than him" then he's a hold out. Now he doesn't want to play - KM did. Bruce's answer with KM was to not give him anything but in the case of Plummer not giving him anything doesn't matter. Plummer "gets" $5.6m of the Donks money just by showing up so he's won at that point. Allen can put him on does not report lists and all that but it doesn't matter. You only have leverage if the player wants to play and/or get piad by you. In this case, Plummer just has to keep what DEN paid him and he wins. That's the difference.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Skull and Bones

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#31 : March 04, 2007, 03:20:50 PM

Plummer is definately caught in a pickle.

All he has to do is un-retire, report to Tampa, dink around a month or whatever and then stage a holdout demanding a higher salary, something crazy like $10m per year guaranteed. He keeps the signing bonus because he's not retired, still doesn't play for us, dinks us out of the higher draft pick and forces the trade or release.

Has it occurred to anyone that the Bucs may have made a mutual gentlemen's agreement with Plummer before going thru with the trade?  You don't make this move unless there is a plan in place.


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#32 : March 04, 2007, 03:26:40 PM

Listen everyone I think Bruce knows what he is doing.  At the end of the day, I think he wanted to play for the Texans or Raiders.  What Plummer wanted was for the Broncos to cut him so he could keep his signing bonus from the Broncos and get a new one as a free agent.  That still is feasible because I believe Tampa will workout compensation with either suiter prior to allowing them to negotiate for a longer term deal.  Plummer isn't stupid and he does not want to payback his signing bonus.  If he was going to retire after the season he would have.  Look at Alstott's situation for more clarity.  His retirement didn't come up until he discovered that he would be going to team other than the Texans or Raiders (or wherever he wanted to play.  I think Bruce know this too based on their conversation, and was a reaction to his long-term being with Bucs.  I really don't think the Bucs want his services despite what Allen says (GM speak).  I bet we get more in return this year thant we gave up next year.  Probably a 5th round pick if Plummer plays and a 7th if he retires.  I think this will prove to be a shrewd move.

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#33 : March 04, 2007, 03:27:45 PM

Plummer is definately caught in a pickle.

All he has to do is un-retire, report to Tampa, dink around a month or whatever and then stage a holdout demanding a higher salary, something crazy like $10m per year guaranteed. He keeps the signing bonus because he's not retired, still doesn't play for us, dinks us out of the higher draft pick and forces the trade or release.

Has it occurred to anyone that the Bucs may have made a mutual gentlemen's agreement with Plummer before going thru with the trade? You don't make this move unless there is a plan in place.
Exactly what I was getting at.  I agree the Bucs know he doesn't really want to retire. 

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#34 : March 04, 2007, 03:30:04 PM

He has no options. If Plummer shows up and say "I want more jack than Garcia because over the last 3 years I'm way, way better than him" then he's a hold out. Now he doesn't want to play - KM did. Bruce's answer with KM was to not give him anything but in the case of Plummer not giving him anything doesn't matter. Plummer "gets" $5.6m of the Donks money just by showing up so he's won at that point. Allen can put him on does not report lists and all that but it doesn't matter. You only have leverage if the player wants to play and/or get piad by you. In this case, Plummer just has to keep what DEN paid him and he wins. That's the difference.

You are missing my point.  The Bucs did not just put McCardell on the “did not report” list; they also filed a grievance against him and won recouping some of his signing bonus money.  The ruling on that grievance sent shock waves through the Player's Union.  If Jake reports to the Bucs, they assume the obligations and benefits of the contract he signed with the Broncos, and he in essence agrees to fulfill that contract as written.  If he then fails to fulfill his obligations in respect to that contract (i.e. he becomes a hold-out or retires again) the Bucs file a grievance against him demanding repayment of the bonus money Denver paid him (just like the Dolphins did with Ricky Williams when he retired).  Given the precedence set in the two cases I mentioned (McCardell and Williams), I think the Bucs would have a good shot at winning that grievance, and Jake would have to repay the bonus money.


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#35 : March 04, 2007, 03:30:30 PM

Clearly it's worth $5.6 million and his career to him to NOT play with Gruden! Gruden is the Antichrist and Plummer will be the first of 7.2 billion NFL players over the next thousand years than shun the Gruden name! (snicker snicker)

 When I picture the anti-christ in my head he always looks more like Shanahan

cheveliar

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#36 : March 04, 2007, 03:32:00 PM


It is not as simple as that. If Plummer did indeed file his retirement papers they will argue on his behalf that he can not be traded becuase he retired.
Meaning the trade never materialized.
And the Broncos will go after the remaining signing bonus that Plummer owes. Plummer must be quick and reinstate himself into the league or else the Broncos will come knocking on his door for the money.

Right, but if he did retire he can report to Tampa, per the terms of the trade, DEN has zero recourse and we have to take him. At that point he can do anything he wants in terms of the hold out. There's no retribution possible from either end.

I think he wants to play where he wants to play if he plays at all.  I don't think money, other than the signing bonus which is a stickler, is a motivationg factor...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


dalbuc

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#37 : March 04, 2007, 04:28:16 PM


You are missing my point.  The Bucs did not just put McCardell on the “did not report” list; they also filed a grievance against him and won recouping some of his signing bonus money.  The ruling on that grievance sent shock waves through the Player's Union.  If Jake reports to the Bucs, they assume the obligations and benefits of the contract he signed with the Broncos, and he in essence agrees to fulfill that contract as written. 

We don't assume the signing bonus money. DEN does that. That money is gone baby. Ricky got drilled because he got a new deal with MIA, KM got drilled because paid him the bonus money. We can't sue him for money DEN paid him...otherwise the Glazers would LOVE to see him show up and hold out.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#38 : March 04, 2007, 04:33:57 PM

You

You are missing my point. The Bucs did not just put McCardell on the “did not report” list; they also filed a grievance against him and won recouping some of his signing bonus money. The ruling on that grievance sent shock waves through the Player's Union. If Jake reports to the Bucs, they assume the obligations and benefits of the contract he signed with the Broncos, and he in essence agrees to fulfill that contract as written.

Good thing he'll be moved prior to us paying him a dime.

We don't assume the signing bonus money. DEN does that. That money is gone baby. Ricky got drilled because he got a new deal with MIA, KM got drilled because paid him the bonus money. We can't sue him for money DEN paid him...otherwise the Glazers would LOVE to see him show up and hold out.

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#39 : March 04, 2007, 07:57:02 PM

Theoretically, the league can fine or suspend Plummer for filing bogus retirement papers if they determine that this was his scheme. When you file these papers, it is in essence a contract. By contract law, under the Uniform Commercial Code, the most important element is ''intent to contract.'' So what is Plummer's intent here? Legally, if he unretires almost immediately, the league can say he never intended to retire to begin with. He could be in breach of contract with the league, the Broncos and/or the Bucs. We'll see how it plays out, but he's playing a foolish game. The less he cooperates, the more he stands to lose.

In Verner We Trust

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#40 : March 04, 2007, 08:05:34 PM

I'm sure you are right, Jersey, but I don't think the Bucs would pursue the hardball method in this case.  They voluntarily inserted themselves into this mess with the hopes of getting some benefit out of it, and I think they will focus on that rather than on making a statement to Plummer.  As for the league, I don't know what they would do to him monetarily, but I don't think they would prevent him from playing.


jerseybucsfan

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#41 : March 04, 2007, 08:27:39 PM

I'm sure if he wants to go to Houston and the Bucs told the league they have a deal in place with Houston that everybody would wind up happy in the end. Seems like Plummer is making life more difficult for himself by choosing this route.

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Fresh

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#42 : March 04, 2007, 08:47:19 PM

I heard Michael Smith say he did turn his papers in, I guess he took them back. At this point just cut the ole man


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RangerBuc

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#43 : March 04, 2007, 09:37:19 PM


We don't assume the signing bonus money. DEN does that. That money is gone baby. Ricky got drilled because he got a new deal with MIA, KM got drilled because paid him the bonus money. We can't sue him for money DEN paid him...otherwise the Glazers would LOVE to see him show up and hold out.

Ricky reworked his deal, but $3.3mil of the $8.6mil that the Dolphins asked for and were awarded by the arbitrator was from the signing bonus paid to Ricky by the Saints.

http://media.www.michigandaily.com/media/storage/paper851/news/2004/09/07/Sports/Williams.Miami.In.Contract.Dispute-1424673.shtml

Quote
Berthelsen said he plans to argue that Williams be allowed to keep the money.

“First of all, you’re talking about signing bonus that the club didn’t pay,” Berthelsen told the Herald. “How do the Dolphins have a right to ask for money back that they didn’t pay?

Ultimately for Jake to officially unretire, he would have to sign at least an amendment to his existing contract (changing the responsible club from the Broncos to the Bucs) if not a whole new contract (even if the terms remain the same).  If he does not do that, then you are probably correct, the Bucs may not be able to go after the Signing Bonus monies; but the Broncos still can (the standard player contract allows a club to assign the contract and the player’s services to any other club in the league, and that the player will report to the assignee club promptly, and faithfully perform his services under the contract - - failure to do so would be a breach of said contract).  If he does sign the amendment or new contract, you can bet that Bruce will have a penalty clause in there that allows him to go after a portion of that signing bonus paid by the Broncos just like the Dolphins did.


Itchalot

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#44 : March 04, 2007, 09:53:20 PM

I heard Michael Smith say he did turn his papers in, I guess he took them back. At this point just cut the ..........
Cut him?  Yeah lets just give him exactly what he wants, bail out on our own plan after only two days, and give up the draft pick for nothing.   Sure thats the ticket.   I vote Fresh for GM!

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