Can Freeman win us games we arent supposed to win?

[tbc_bucs]

I just got to thinking about this a bit, recollecting on some of the wins we had last year.

Not talking about Seattle here... that game was as much of a crapshoot as the Washington game (which we could've won)

I am talking about the Packers and Saints games.

The packers game particularly. I know there was no tape on Josh before that game, other than his college game tape which quite frankly meant next to nothing to the Packers. I know the team had a bye week, but lets remember we were 0-7. Before that game there was absolutely NO HOPE for the team, people were trying to find a win on the schedule. I might be pointing out the obvious here, but there seems to be an "It" factor there. Going into this season our WR's arent that different. Bryant didnt come on until late in the season, he wasnt really a factor in the game against the Packers. Clayton was Clayton, Freeman did this with Winslow and a defense... maybe a mix of sammie stroughter in there.

I watched the tape last night of the Green Bay game and it gives me chills. He's clearly a rook with a lot to learn, but there is something there.  If you all remember (I think it was the week after) we were dominated by the Saints 38-7. A welcome to the NFL moment for Freeman for sure, but that didnt phase him. The Dolphins game, Freeman came back and won it for us in the 4th quarter, our D just fell apart. Seattle we put a game together, play-calling was on point for the first time all season...

Then the Saints game, when we won in overtime over the SB Champs.
To me after getting dominated the first time, that is the best message the team could have sent. Do I wish we lost that game (we might have been picking #2 overall), sure, but I just think there is more to this guy than people are giving him credit for.

Don't get me wrong, he will still have tons of growing pains, and by no means will he be a God or anything like that, but I just wanted to point this out to everyone. We had no talent and in the 9 games Freeman played in there was always HOPE. If we get the D back on track and provide Freeman with a weapon or two we might be in better shape than some of you think...

Keep up the high spirits around here... I dont think Dominik and Morris want to ruin the kid their jobs depend upon... we have a commitment other teams dont have!

[Doug09]

I believe so.

I don't think the people below me will share these same sentiments though.

[tbc_bucs]

I believe so.

I don't think the people below me will share these same sentiments though.

If there werent doubters we wouldnt have a message board. But go watch the tape... it should tell everyone all they need to know...

[BucFan9720]

Thats the great thing about having a franchise QB.. you truly are never out of a game.

[s0uthFLbucfan]

Its funny because I got bored and was watching highlights last nigth also. But just to add to what you said, our awesome special teams contributed to both the green bay and saints win, but Freeman came thru at major times.





I esp love the pass to stovall. I agree with you though, I really think we have a special player in Josh Freeman. His ability to keep plays alive is nice, and he is becoming a leader. Yes he has issues with accuracy, and I'm sure if someone found all of his picks he would look terrible, but he's also made alot of great plays, with not a lot of help around him, I'm excited for year 2!

[s0uthFLbucfan]

It's also nice to KNOW who is going to be the QB in training camp..for once

[BuccinTex]

luke99 is going to be in this thread shortly.   He'll tell us how Freeman is the next Ryan Leaf.      I think Freeman has all the tools and smarts to win games and be a good QB.  If we build a team of young good players around him we should be back in the playoffs soon.

[tbc_bucs]

I know the video quality is bad on this one, but I think its funny lol

[tatmanfish]

my uncle got to play with john elway in denver. i was talking to him the other day about freeman, and he said he reminds him of elway. not overall, but when theres those defining momonets late in the game, he said freeman has the same poise he saw when he was catching passes from elway.

Freeman definately seem to be a pressure player. he does his best when it matters, and you dont mind giving him the ball to make something happen late in a game.

i think those qualities are what i like the most. thats not even mentioning his escapability and his arm stregnth. i really think hes got the tools to develope into a quality NFL QB.

[Capt_Chaos]

Here's the thing about Freeman last year...

In the Greenbay game he had "1" actual drive that looked good and ended with a great pass to Sammy for a t.d, he had a nice scramble in the redzone with the td pass to K2......without the SPECTACULAR special teams and defensive plays we would have lost...the Elbert mack int and return to the 8 yd line , the blocked punt for a t.d, the Tanard int for a td, and the kick return for 85 yards...those plays gave Freeman a chance to win the game....and I will say that he made plays when he had to, but without all that we wouldn't have won it based off of his skills..but he did good for his first game.....

Against Seattle we had 4 int's, 2 of them gave us the ball in scoring position...Tanards int at the 30, which turned into Caddy's 27 yard screen for a td, Elbert macks 2 int's on deep balls, and i believe Quincy had the 4th which we got a field goal from.......both of our td's that game were screen passes that had great blocking and runs........

The Saints game was all over the place, first half offense and defense looked bad..but in the second half  our defense stepped up and Spurlocks punt return for a td tied the game......Freeman had one good drive the whole game, and didnt look very well overall.....plus a little luck from the saints kicker missing a gimme helped........

Freeman looked like a rookie for 90% of those games, and thats expected, but if we were down in a game 14-0 with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter and you asked me if Freeman could win the game I would say no because his drives stolled all season long, and I can only think of one or two drives that ended in td's that werent a result of a turnover giving us great field position....but that why we have OTA's,  camp and  pre-season, to improve those things.....

And on Freemans behalf I think his best game was in Atlanta and thats the game he needs to look at and build from......

[Newbucfan]

I think he definitely has a bright future.

[tatmanfish]

Here's the thing about Freeman last year...

In the Greenbay game he had "1" actual drive that looked good and ended with a great pass to Sammy for a t.d, he had a nice scramble in the redzone with the td pass to K2......without the SPECTACULAR special teams and defensive plays we would have lost...the Elbert mack int and return to the 8 yd line , the blocked punt for a t.d, the Tanard int for a td, and the kick return for 85 yards...those plays gave Freeman a chance to win the game....and I will say that he made plays when he had to, but without all that we wouldn't have won it based off of his skills..but he did good for his first game.....

Against Seattle we had 4 int's, 2 of them gave us the ball in scoring position...Tanards int at the 30, which turned into Caddy's 27 yard screen for a td, Elbert macks 2 int's on deep balls, and i believe Quincy had the 4th which we got a field goal from.......both of our td's that game were screen passes that had great blocking and runs........

The Saints game was all over the place, first half offense and defense looked bad..but in the second half  our defense stepped up and Spurlocks punt return for a td tied the game......Freeman had one good drive the whole game, and didnt look very well overall.....plus a little luck from the saints kicker missing a gimme helped........

Freeman looked like a rookie for 90% of those games, and thats expected, but if we were down in a game 14-0 with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter and you asked me if Freeman could win the game I would say no because his drives stolled all season long, and I can only think of one or two drives that ended in td's that werent a result of a turnover giving us great field position....but that why we have OTA's,  camp and  pre-season, to improve those things.....

And on Freemans behalf I think his best game was in Atlanta and thats the game he needs to look at and build from......

well, it takes a team to win in football. plain and simple. saying we wouldnt win without STs, well no crap.the bucs couldnt win without a defense, who knew? you can do this if you didnt have this play or that play with EVERY SINGLE NFL GAME EVER PLAYED!!!! tom brady would be witout a SB win is his career if we played this game.

this is the equivilent of saying if the the terrorist didnt attack on 9-11, we wouldnt be at war with half the middle east. no freaking duh!

bottom line is that freeman lead the Bucs to several 4th quarter comebacks last year. a couple fell short to the defense, but he still drove them down the field. saying a screen pass doesnt count? thats the dumbest thing i ever heard. he trew the pass and it went for a td, but because there was good blocking, it doesnt count as a positive for freeman? assinine. he won a game on 4th quarter comeback drive, but doest get credit because the defense set him up? what an ear biting adventure your post provided.

[Capt_Chaos]

Here's the thing about Freeman last year...

In the Greenbay game he had "1" actual drive that looked good and ended with a great pass to Sammy for a t.d, he had a nice scramble in the redzone with the td pass to K2......without the SPECTACULAR special teams and defensive plays we would have lost...the Elbert mack int and return to the 8 yd line , the blocked punt for a t.d, the Tanard int for a td, and the kick return for 85 yards...those plays gave Freeman a chance to win the game....and I will say that he made plays when he had to, but without all that we wouldn't have won it based off of his skills..but he did good for his first game.....

Against Seattle we had 4 int's, 2 of them gave us the ball in scoring position...Tanards int at the 30, which turned into Caddy's 27 yard screen for a td, Elbert macks 2 int's on deep balls, and i believe Quincy had the 4th which we got a field goal from.......both of our td's that game were screen passes that had great blocking and runs........

The Saints game was all over the place, first half offense and defense looked bad..but in the second half  our defense stepped up and Spurlocks punt return for a td tied the game......Freeman had one good drive the whole game, and didnt look very well overall.....plus a little luck from the saints kicker missing a gimme helped........

Freeman looked like a rookie for 90% of those games, and thats expected, but if we were down in a game 14-0 with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter and you asked me if Freeman could win the game I would say no because his drives stolled all season long, and I can only think of one or two drives that ended in td's that werent a result of a turnover giving us great field position....but that why we have OTA's,  camp and  pre-season, to improve those things.....

And on Freemans behalf I think his best game was in Atlanta and thats the game he needs to look at and build from......

well, it takes a team to win in football. plain and simple. saying we wouldnt win without STs, well no crap.the bucs couldnt win without a defense, who knew? you can do this if you didnt have this play or that play with EVERY SINGLE NFL GAME EVER PLAYED!!!! tom brady would be witout a SB win is his career if we played this game.

this is the equivilent of saying if the the terrorist didnt attack on 9-11, we wouldnt be at war with half the middle east. no freaking duh!

bottom line is that freeman lead the Bucs to several 4th quarter comebacks last year. a couple fell short to the defense, but he still drove them down the field. saying a screen pass doesnt count? thats the dumbest thing i ever heard. he trew the pass and it went for a td, but because there was good blocking, it doesnt count as a positive for freeman? assinine. he won a game on 4th quarter comeback drive, but doest get credit because the defense set him up? what an ear biting adventure your post provided.

the question here was can "FREEMAN" win those games...and the answer is "NO" so far he hasnt...show me a game that "Freeman led us to victory" you cant....if you zero out the defense and special teams scoring our QB failed...plain and simple......

[Capt_Chaos]

I think he definitely has a bright future.

I agree, I think he will be decent..the problem here is that when people ask questions they dont like the answers...I based my answer off of what happened in the games and people base thier rebuttles from what the HOPE he will do NEXT YEAR........as a Team the "TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS"  won 3 games....at no point in this season did FREEMAN win us a game......and that was the question "Can Freeman Win", but some people are so cought up in the hype that they miss the point, Bruce Gradkowski had victories...lol..he even threw the game winning pass on 4th down to actually win the game....lol

[tatmanfish]

I think he definitely has a bright future.

I agree, I think he will be decent..the problem here is that when people ask questions they dont like the answers...I based my answer off of what happened in the games and people base thier rebuttles from what the HOPE he will do NEXT YEAR........as a Team the "TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS"  won 3 games....at no point in this season did FREEMAN win us a game......and that was the question "Can Freeman Win", but some people are so cought up in the hype that they miss the point, Bruce Gradkowski had victories...lol..he even threw the game winning pass on 4th down to actually win the game....lol

but under your theories, the Bucs defense and STs set up gradkowski for the win and it doesnt count.