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luke99

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#15 : March 16, 2010, 07:18:53 PM

 :D He couldnt beat Atlanta at Home in the last game. He is not ready and for those that say he will win games for us then he should be 9-7 as a starter. If not then he has failed. Plain and simple.

You guys so want a franchise guy, Freeman is not it.

tatmanfish

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#16 : March 16, 2010, 07:39:45 PM


You guys so want a franchise guy, Freeman is not it.

damn saints fans! why dont you want a franchise qb?



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Capt_Chaos

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#17 : March 16, 2010, 07:47:12 PM

I think he definitely has a bright future.

I agree, I think he will be decent..the problem here is that when people ask questions they dont like the answers...I based my answer off of what happened in the games and people base thier rebuttles from what the HOPE he will do NEXT YEAR........as a Team the "TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS"  won 3 games....at no point in this season did FREEMAN win us a game......and that was the question "Can Freeman Win", but some people are so cought up in the hype that they miss the point, Bruce Gradkowski had victories...lol..he even threw the game winning pass on 4th down to actually win the game....lol

but under your theories, the Bucs defense and STs set up Gradkowski for the win and it doesnt count.

not at all, Bruce actually drove the ball down field 54 yards and scored against the bengals to win the game....our defense scored no points, and special teams scored no points....we didnt get any int's, no fumble recoveries..nothing...as a matter fact Carson Palmer put 260 yds in the air on us.....it wasnt a stout defensive stand by far...they had over 300 yards offense on us, but when it came down to it all im saying is that Bruce ran the offense and threw 2 td's to win the game....but i dont hear anyone saying he was FRANCHISE!!!  All im saying is this "can freeman win the games we are not suppose to win"  NO!!  From what i have seen my answer is no...I hope next season he changes my mind because i dont want another year of excuses for him....


dalbuc

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#18 : March 16, 2010, 08:43:05 PM

We don't know. Seriously, he showed some flashes last year. This is the year where you see what he's gonna be. QB's improve dramatically from year 1 to 2 historically. If Freeman is still stumbling around this season then we've likely got an issue. His develop is the single biggest thing to be excited about. If he works out we're contenders for the next decade if not we're going to have to go back to the well sooner rather than later.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

Newbucfan

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#19 : March 16, 2010, 08:44:25 PM

I guess the defense never stopped them the whole game for Gradkowski. I guess they ran the ensuing kick off back for a touchdown.  

And of course, Freeman did nothing to contribute any of our three wins.(sarcasm)  And Drew Brees had the benefit of an opportunistic defense. Otherwise the saints are 8-8, at best.   ???

Each player has a part Freeman, against the packers, the saints and the seahawks, did his part or else we lose.  That is called performing!

tenfive

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#20 : March 16, 2010, 09:03:15 PM

We don't know. Seriously, he showed some flashes last year. This is the year where you see what he's gonna be. QB's improve dramatically from year 1 to 2 historically. If Freeman is still stumbling around this season then we've likely got an issue. His develop is the single biggest thing to be excited about. If he works out we're contenders for the next decade if not we're going to have to go back to the well sooner rather than later.

It depends on what year 2 shows he doesn't have to be a top 10 QB next season just progressing towards that, with a QB rating in the mid to upper 70s would show clear progress for example look at these Eli Manning stats he started the same number of games as Freeman his rookie year and after three years he was almost on his way out of NY but then in the second half of 2008 it all came together but you could still see the progress but weren't sure if it would all come tegether for the #1 pick in the draft. So if Freeman can throw more tds than ints and complete close to 60% of his passes next season then I think the Bucs will have the answer, remember he doesn't have the advantage of Flacco, Sanchez or Ryan that have a strong OL and a good team already around them. I think he has that in him just watching him compared to other QBs in the league he doesn't panick and he has a presence in the pocket you just can't teach and the leadership skills. But like you said next season is when we will have a better idea remember he came out as a junior with no first team reps in training camp.

Eli Manning | #10 | QB
Season Team  Passing Rushing Fumbles
G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
2009  New York Giants  16  16  317 509 62.3 4,021 7.9 27 14 30 216 93.1 17 65 3.8 0 13 8
2008  New York Giants  16  16  289 479 60.3 3,238 6.8 21 10 27 174 86.4 20 10 0.5 1 5 2
2007  New York Giants  16  16  297 529 56.1 3,336 6.3 23 20 27 217 73.9 29 69 2.4 1 13 7
2006  New York Giants  16  16  301 522 57.7 3,244 6.2 24 18 25 186 77.0 25 21 0.8 0 9 2
2005  New York Giants  16  16  294 557 52.8 3,762 6.8 24 17 28 184 75.9 29 80 2.8 1 9 2
2004  New York Giants  9  7  95 197 48.2 1,043 5.3 6 9 13 83 55.4 6 35 5.8 0 3 1
TOTAL 1,593 2,793 57.0 18,644 6.7 125 88 150 1,060 79.2 126 280 2.2 3 52 22



 

 


CurtR1995

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#21 : March 16, 2010, 09:16:50 PM

He is going to be a special QB and yes he certainly can win us games we would normally lose. 

AB is a good WR, but his style of play really killed JF with his lack of precision routes and somehow not wanting to fight on possible Ints.  If they get a BM and combined with KW, I just dont see how anyone can see JF not succeeding. 

Doug09

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#22 : March 16, 2010, 09:22:16 PM

We don't know. Seriously, he showed some flashes last year. This is the year where you see what he's gonna be. QB's improve dramatically from year 1 to 2 historically. If Freeman is still stumbling around this season then we've likely got an issue. His develop is the single biggest thing to be excited about. If he works out we're contenders for the next decade if not we're going to have to go back to the well sooner rather than later.

I don't think we should give him half a decade to develop. But next year he will be playing at the age of 22. There should definitely be improvements, but it shouldn't be the tell all season for him, IMO.


Skull and Bones

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#23 : March 16, 2010, 09:30:51 PM

not to mention he is still going to be playing on a really bad team.


tbc_bucs

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#24 : March 16, 2010, 09:54:37 PM

Here's the thing about Freeman last year...

In the Greenbay game he had "1" actual drive that looked good and ended with a great pass to Sammy for a t.d, he had a nice scramble in the redzone with the td pass to K2......without the SPECTACULAR special teams and defensive plays we would have lost...the Elbert mack int and return to the 8 yd line , the blocked punt for a t.d, the Tanard int for a td, and the kick return for 85 yards...those plays gave Freeman a chance to win the game....and I will say that he made plays when he had to, but without all that we wouldn't have won it based off of his skills..but he did good for his first game.....

Against Seattle we had 4 int's, 2 of them gave us the ball in scoring position...Tanards int at the 30, which turned into Caddy's 27 yard screen for a td, Elbert macks 2 int's on deep balls, and i believe Quincy had the 4th which we got a field goal from.......both of our td's that game were screen passes that had great blocking and runs........

The Saints game was all over the place, first half offense and defense looked bad..but in the second half  our defense stepped up and Spurlocks punt return for a td tied the game......Freeman had one good drive the whole game, and didnt look very well overall.....plus a little luck from the saints kicker missing a gimme helped........

Freeman looked like a rookie for 90% of those games, and thats expected, but if we were down in a game 14-0 with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter and you asked me if Freeman could win the game I would say no because his drives stolled all season long, and I can only think of one or two drives that ended in td's that werent a result of a turnover giving us great field position....but that why we have OTA's,  camp and  pre-season, to improve those things.....

And on Freemans behalf I think his best game was in Atlanta and thats the game he needs to look at and build from......

well, it takes a team to win in football. plain and simple. saying we wouldnt win without STs, well no crap.the bucs couldnt win without a defense, who knew? you can do this if you didnt have this play or that play with EVERY SINGLE NFL GAME EVER PLAYED!!!! tom brady would be witout a SB win is his career if we played this game.

this is the equivilent of saying if the the terrorist didnt attack on 9-11, we wouldnt be at war with half the middle east. no freaking duh!

bottom line is that freeman lead the Bucs to several 4th quarter comebacks last year. a couple fell short to the defense, but he still drove them down the field. saying a screen pass doesnt count? thats the dumbest thing i ever heard. he trew the pass and it went for a td, but because there was good blocking, it doesnt count as a positive for freeman? assinine. he won a game on 4th quarter comeback drive, but doest get credit because the defense set him up? what an ear biting adventure your post provided.


the question here was can "FREEMAN" win those games...and the answer is "NO" so far he hasnt...show me a game that "Freeman led us to victory" you cant....if you zero out the defense and special teams scoring our QB failed...plain and simple......

I agree with your logic for the most part. Did he "Peyton Manning put the team on his back?" No he didn't. The thing he did though, was capitalize. Even if he had a ton of opportunities and things go his way, he made the plays. You know how many times we kicked Field Goals in the last 6 or 7 years? Dare I go back further than that? We flat out have BLOWN in the Red zone. That is the reality. Did Freeman light it up numbers wise? No. Did he have a terrible game against Carolina, New Orleans, and Atlanta? Yes he did. There is good with the bad here, he was a rookie and it showed.

I think the underlying point is we havent seen the poise that he has in a long time, if ever. A part of me says that we really improved when Freeman came in because the attitude of the team changed. Did we have an identity on offense, not really. Did we have a different swag about us, absolutely. Freeman was looking to make plays. That burned him in a few games last year because he took risks, but he had the luxury of knowing he wasnt auditioning, or playing for a job. Hes been told he is the future.

I hope we are all right about the guy. I agree with you, he may not have shown he is a "Franchise" guy yet, but my personal opinion is he has shown us he can win us games that we might not normally win with another QB under center. 0-7 was dreadful to go through. 3-6 isnt what we all wanted out of Freeman, but in my opinion he was the best rookie last year (Sanchez was on a pretty damn good team with weapons)

Lets see what this year brings.


CyberDilemma

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#25 : March 16, 2010, 10:09:51 PM



I agree with your logic for the most part. Did he "Peyton Manning put the team on his back?" No he didn't. The thing he did though, was capitalize. Even if he had a ton of opportunities and things go his way, he made the plays. You know how many times we kicked Field Goals in the last 6 or 7 years? Dare I go back further than that? We flat out have BLOWN in the Red zone. That is the reality. Did Freeman light it up numbers wise? No. Did he have a terrible game against Carolina, New Orleans, and Atlanta? Yes he did. There is good with the bad here, he was a rookie and it showed.

I think the underlying point is we havent seen the poise that he has in a long time, if ever. A part of me says that we really improved when Freeman came in because the attitude of the team changed. Did we have an identity on offense, not really. Did we have a different swag about us, absolutely. Freeman was looking to make plays. That burned him in a few games last year because he took risks, but he had the luxury of knowing he wasnt auditioning, or playing for a job. Hes been told he is the future.

I hope we are all right about the guy. I agree with you, he may not have shown he is a "Franchise" guy yet, but my personal opinion is he has shown us he can win us games that we might not normally win with another QB under center. 0-7 was dreadful to go through. 3-6 isnt what we all wanted out of Freeman, but in my opinion he was the best rookie last year (Sanchez was on a pretty damn good team with weapons)

Lets see what this year brings.


Very good post.

dalbuc

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#26 : March 16, 2010, 10:16:11 PM


It depends on what year 2 shows he doesn't have to be a top 10 QB next season just progressing towards that, with a QB rating in the mid to upper 70s would show clear progress for example look


Eli is a historical oddity in terms of glacial development and frankly I don't think he wins a lot of games for the NYG.

Still, your basic point is sound and I didn't mean to imply he'd be a top 10 QB but that he should show major steps forward from his rookie years stats and I think the 60% and a + TD:INT ratio would be really good signs.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

JavaBuc

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#27 : March 16, 2010, 10:26:12 PM

I really believe Freeman is Daunte Culpepper part II.   He's at his peak right now.   He'll be pretty good the next 4 years or so then fizzle.

dalbuc

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#28 : March 16, 2010, 10:45:45 PM

I really believe Freeman is Daunte Culpepper part II.   He's at his peak right now.   He'll be pretty good the next 4 years or so then fizzle.

You've been drinking too much water in Bangladesh.

If he's at his peak he won't be "pretty good" because he was dreadful last year unless you stake the term "rookie" in front of him.

Plus there's really no record of QB's flaming out. Culpepper was a 110 QBR the year before he got hurt and he's not been right since.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

CyberDilemma

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#29 : March 16, 2010, 10:47:42 PM

I really believe Freeman is Daunte Culpepper part II.   He's at his peak right now.   He'll be pretty good the next 4 years or so then fizzle.

Well that would be 4 more good years of QB play than the Bucs have had in the past century, so I'll take that.
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