you stay classy opponents of health care....you stay classy

[Morgan]

These guys should be first up when the Death Panels are instituted. Disgusting behavior. By disgusting human beings.

Death Panel is a classic red herring argument from clueless Palin - didn't work, did it?

[spartan]

How many years have we experienced wave after wave of vitriol, hate and smug condescension directed at Bush and conservatives in general? One day of stupidity hardly compares.

Not saying you were one of those people sficarrotta but the this is little league compared to the Kos, media matters and moveons of this world. One thing this does show though is that neither side has a monopoly on idiots.

[VA_Buc30]

And just what was the Republican plan for health care reform before the Democrats started pushing it?

And I'm sure if you took a poll back in the mid-1960s, a large percentage of Americans would have opposed desegregation.  Sometimes what's right isn't what's popular.

As for your second moronic point about segregation let's us say this what people opposed wasn't health reform, they opposed THIS health reform. They did so with a legion of good reasons because what we've got is truly legislative sausage. We'd have been better off honestly with a straight single payer plan this this abomination of a bill - not that the SPP is a good option but that is how bad this option is going to be.

It's not 'moronic', he brings up a good point about our history of a President forcing something on the American people and congress that was unpopular, but the right thing to do.  LBJ lost the support of his entire Southern base over the Civil Rights Act.  Even then, majority of Americans were against it completely, and South Carolina sued to get it invalidated claiming it was unconstitutional to force people of different races to share schools.

Now we have health care reform that is unpopular by the majority of Americans, and states are getting ready to sue to get it invalidated because it's unconstitutional to force people to have health insurance.   Hmmm, looks to me that history is repeating itself.  

[Morgan]

One thing this does show though is that neither side has a monopoly on idiots.

This is true. Also true that not all the representatives deserve citizen's respect.

[cyberdude557]

And just what was the Republican plan for health care reform before the Democrats started pushing it?

And I'm sure if you took a poll back in the mid-1960s, a large percentage of Americans would have opposed desegregation.  Sometimes what's right isn't what's popular.

As for your second moronic point about segregation let's us say this what people opposed wasn't health reform, they opposed THIS health reform. They did so with a legion of good reasons because what we've got is truly legislative sausage. We'd have been better off honestly with a straight single payer plan this this abomination of a bill - not that the SPP is a good option but that is how bad this option is going to be.

It's not 'moronic', he brings up a good point about our history of a President forcing something on the American people and congress that was unpopular, but the right thing to do.  LBJ lost the support of his entire Southern base over the Civil Rights Act.  Even then, majority of Americans were against it completely, and South Carolina sued to get it invalidated claiming it was unconstitutional to force people of different races to share schools.

Now we have health care reform that is unpopular by the majority of Americans, and states are getting ready to sue to get it invalidated because it's unconstitutional to force people to have health insurance.   Hmmm, looks to me that history is repeating itself. 

Absolutely hilarious that you leftists are following the DNC talking points that this is comparable to the Civil Rights Act.

Do you have any idea how stupid that is?

The closest thing you can get this thing to is Medicare. But even then this is far, far more reaching and partisan than Medicare. Medicare got 70 Republican votes.

[samsdad]

They are not opponents of healthcare, they are opponents of that 2000+ page sham that is called a Healthcare Bill (even though about 1900 of those pages do nothing to improve health care.)

I wonder how many people have actually read the damned thing from start to finish and understood every part of its intentions?

O/U 50?

Have you?

[samsdad]

Have some dignity

These Americans are de**CENSORED**able to treat our elected officials this way.

Agreed.

I dont necessarily agree with the bill. I find its a start with problems but its a start....
but nevertheless the political discourse in this country is basically at the level of remedial 5th graders.

[dalbuc]

It's not 'moronic', he brings up a good point about our history of a President forcing something on the American people and congress that was unpopular, but the right thing to do. �LBJ lost the support of his entire Southern base over the Civil Rights Act. �Even then, majority of Americans were against it completely, and South Carolina sued to get it invalidated claiming it was unconstitutional to force people of different races to share schools.

No, what he's trying to do is claim this is an act of great moral courage against a backwards population. While it reflects the arrogance of the democratic leadership and their simper constituents it misses the fact that opposition to segregation had no reasonable or ethical stance while the opposition to this bill was in fact based on solid economics, principles of freedom and basic common sense.

This bill is the worst sort of effort because the desperation to pass it was all about being able to create enough inertia that it is a fact. Works or not I doubt Obama or Pelosi cared. They think they can "fix" it later like they've been able to fix so many other government programs.

[kevabuc]

Reminds me of the days of July and August 1765 after the Stamp Act is passed.

[Morgan]

Reminds me of the days of July and August 1765 after the Stamp Act is passed.

You must be pretty old.

[DailyRich68]

They did so with a legion of good reasons

That seemed to constantly shift as they were shot down.  First it was "the government is going to decide what doctor you have!"  Debunked.  "There's going to be death panels!"  Debunked.  "This is going to cause massive debt!"  Debunked.  So now they've latched on to the abortion provisions.  There's never been a consistent argument against this other than Obama's in favor of it.

[kevabuc]

They are not opponents of healthcare, they are opponents of that 2000+ page sham that is called a Healthcare Bill (even though about 1900 of those pages do nothing to improve health care.)

And just what was the Republican plan for health care reform before the Democrats started pushing it?

And I'm sure if you took a poll back in the mid-1960s, a large percentage of Americans would have opposed desegregation. Sometimes what's right isn't what's popular.

You might want to check your history, it was actualy public opinion , including a large portion of the white population, that swayed Congress to actually act with some resolve in Civil Rights legislation during the mid-60's. The largest opposition came from Southern Democrats.

[kevabuc]

Reminds me of the days of July and August 1765 after the Stamp Act is passed.

You must be pretty old.

Old enough to read history books.

[dalbuc]

That seemed to constantly shift as they were shot down.  First it was "the government is going to decide what doctor you have!"  Debunked.  "There's going to be death panels!"  Debunked.  "This is going to cause massive debt!"  Debunked.  So now they've latched on to the abortion provisions.  There's never been a consistent argument against this other than Obama's in favor of it.

Yeah you've not been paying attention very hard.

I like that you think the debt argument was debunked. Now I know how dumb you are. The entire "payment" for this is a trick but CBO can only use the numbers it is given so if people say "we'll do X" they based their math on those assumptions no matter how silly.

The first 10 years of taxes will only cover 6 years of "benefits".  When you run the cost projections at 15 years things get really ugly.
They must trim $463b from Medicare, which ain't gonna happen and never has.
The legislation will have to have $114b per year for the first 10 years to fund it but CBO was not allowed to use that in their calculations.

Once you remove all the tricks the plan will raises deficits dramatically and that assumes the bad history of cost calculations by government plans doesn't kcik in here to and the thing winds up costing way, way more than anyone thought it would. Medicare, in 9165, assumed it would cost $9b by 1990, it actually cost 7x more at $67b. 2 decades later the Medicare hospital subsidy was supposed to top out at $100m by 1992. That projection proved off by just a bit, as costs actually went to $11b or a factor of 100x.

[DailyRich68]

The first 10 years of taxes will only cover 6 years of "benefits".  When you run the cost projections at 15 years things get really ugly.

And of course, absolutely nothing will be done between now and then to address that.

Now I know how dumb you are.

Now I know not to bother trying to engage in civil discussion with you.  Adios.