Here, those of you anti-healthcare

[Stratobuc]

Caution: don't feed trolls...

[ranman]

Gentlemen,
You choose to cast blame to the left for thier bill.  I agree they should recieve blame for the shoddiness of it.  However - I do blame the R's for not getting involved much earlier (see McConnel's coomentary on "Waterloo") last year.  They had a chance to make some inroads bipartisan and make the law much more palatable for mainstream America.  Frum holds the same belief yet how long did that last with the AEI? 

Both sides want you to see fault with the other.  The fault is with ALL of them and they should all be voted out this November.  This is not seclar enough to be directed at one party.  Both parties have proven quiote inpet over the past 6 years. 

[burger40]

Are you not aware of the sumpreme irony of comparing a bill which aims to give health cover to the 10-15% of your country who don't have it, and comparing the main proponent of that bill, Obama to Nazis and the Gestapo and the like?

To be opposed to the bill is a very right wing view. Now....what was being a Nazi...left or right? Hmmmm.

Give your heads a friggin' wobble, yes if you're young and healthy it doesn't make a massive amount of sense. By that rationale anyone living in a nice big house in a nice area should not have home insurance coz they'll never get robbed, right?

Point is, you never know. I'm going to tell you a story, a young minor celebrity here called Jade was a young healthy 26 year old with about $4million in the bank from various TV things she'd done. Aged 27 she found out she had cervical cancer, by 28 she was dead. Her kids can look forward to that money when they turn 18 because of the National Health Service. If she'd have been ill in the US and uninsured because she was "young and healthy" and decided it was her right her kids would have been lucky to have had enough left over to have bought a beer when they come of age.

sorry, the Nazis were not right wing. would you like me to go into detail as to why?

[YoozaHo]

Are you not aware of the sumpreme irony of comparing a bill which aims to give health cover to the 10-15% of your country who don't have it, and comparing the main proponent of that bill, Obama to Nazis and the Gestapo and the like?

To be opposed to the bill is a very right wing view. Now....what was being a Nazi...left or right? Hmmmm.

Give your heads a friggin' wobble, yes if you're young and healthy it doesn't make a massive amount of sense. By that rationale anyone living in a nice big house in a nice area should not have home insurance coz they'll never get robbed, right?

Point is, you never know. I'm going to tell you a story, a young minor celebrity here called Jade was a young healthy 26 year old with about $4million in the bank from various TV things she'd done. Aged 27 she found out she had cervical cancer, by 28 she was dead. Her kids can look forward to that money when they turn 18 because of the National Health Service. If she'd have been ill in the US and uninsured because she was "young and healthy" and decided it was her right her kids would have been lucky to have had enough left over to have bought a beer when they come of age.

sorry, the Nazis were not right wing. would you like me to go into detail as to why?

Already been done somewhere in the 100-odd posts that preceded yours.

[Biggs3535]

More anti-healthcare news:

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/obama-signs-student-loan-legislation/19419539

WASHINGTON (March 30) -- President Barack Obama has signed a law that finalizes his health care overhaul and makes the government the issuer of all federal college loans.

The president completed the measure at Northern Virginia Community College, where he emphasized new help for college students.

The legislation was the second of two steps needed for the Democratic-led House and Senate to approve a health care package affecting virtually all Americans. The new law makes a series of fixes to the one Obama approved last week. It removes some unpopular provisions among other changes.

In the same swoop, Democrats added in a rewriting of college aid.

The new law strips banks of their ability to issue federal student loans in favor of direct government lending.

Hmmm, who would have guessed the socialist libs would have tried to sneak something about student loans in a healthcare bill?  It's almost like this bill wasn't about healthcare at all, but government control instead.

[The White Tiger]

My son encountered this - prior to the bill passing - he tried to check on the status of his loan for next semester, and was directed to a quasi-government agency that said they had taken over for the bank.

They said that the legislation was a going to be a foregone conclusion so they took over early..."because they didn't want there to be any delay getting the students their money due to the red tape..."

The fix was in.

[ranman]

I don't understand why the banks were involved anyway.  I was a recipient of a student loan many years ago, my interest payments went to the bank, but had I defaulted the Govmt would have been on the hook.  Seemed like a stupid arrangement to begin with. 

[The White Tiger]

The banks were incentivized to loan to students who otherwise could not have gotten loans (due to these loans being outside the standard loan parameters requiring: work histories, no collateral, long repayment cycles) - the collaboration was that the banks would allow the non-standard parameters if the government guaranteed the loans - the banks had pools of cash that the government didn't have to raise - the government guarantee allowed the banks to offer EXCELLENT interest rates - to sweetent the deal the government even allowed the banks to collect the limited amount of interest.

You know, kind of like liar loans for people that couldn't afford the brand new house they moved into - but the government forced the banks to lend to them anyway - and made them feel better about it by guaranteeing the loans...like 50% of all the mortgages that are failing and being foreclosed on today!

The way the government - well really Barney Frank and Chris Dodd - forced the banks to lend to poor people is the Community Reinvestment Act (signed into law by Jimmy Carter) allowed congress the right of final approval for any bank that wanted to expand (grow), or to buy another bank (mergers). If the bank in question didn't loan enough money to the poor - regardless of the poor persons ability to pay it back - they refused to approve the banks growth or merger. They basically held the bank hostage to force them to lend.

By the government taking over student loans - and the government handling the merger of failing banks due to the near depression levels of unemployment and miserable economic conditions - there isn't a lot of leverage the government can use to force banks into loaning money to MORE poor people who will never pay them back...so the government is having to take on some direct lending activities themselves.

I mean - do you really think that a bank in todays financial climate would give a loan to a kid who doesn't have to gain a degree that will earn them a living, and that they now have an option to excuse ANY repayment of the loan by opting to do community service instead?

Who do you know that would agree to lend you money at lower than standard interest, allow you to delay repayment for up to 20 years, and at some point the borrower could simply decide to stop paying back the loan altogether?

It is the nationalization of debt - getting the producers to pay for all of the consumers waste - and then giving the consumers the perks.

It works so long as the producers are stupid enough to continue working, while earning less. The government continues to spend more to make more and more workers dependent on them for student loan forgiveness, mortgage forgiveness, credit card debt forgiveness, healthcare, 24 month unemployment benefits, welfare expansion...as unemployment rises - the party currently in power keeps gaining votes as long as they keep handing out more goodies...

It's almost like it's good for this government to have the economy continue to tank - and it's good for this government to have MORE Americans out of work - right through the next election cycle...

That way the average, unemployed, debt-leveraged American will vote to keep the benefits coming...whether they agree with the politics of those giving them the benefits - or not...

almost like that's the plan....

[ranman]

I can understand the fear of the Govmt involvement with anything.  I just don't understand why the ranting on about this program - now.  Clearly they have been in the Student Loan biz for a long time as an underwriter to bad loans ie always paying.  Now they have the chance to benefit from some return monies and it appears people are upset with that.

[The White Tiger]

No, the government isn't trying to help the banks - the government has taken over.

Your government now decides whether or not to loan your students money.

They are STILL allowing quasi-government agencies, like AmeriKorp, to distribute funds. If you can't pay back the loan - the government forces you into a 10 year commitment of community service.

I don't want my government backing, then directly lending, to my son. I don't want them forcing ALL private education lenders out of the business. If I have a problem with a private lender - I have recourse with that lender. If I have a problem with the government - I have NO recourse.

It only matters if you like civil liberties - otherwise - it doesn't matter.

[ranman]

Okay I understand your point.  My opinion is less of a drastic view but at least now I understand where you are coming from. 

[dbucfan]

Okay I understand your point.  My opinion is less of a drastic view but at least now I understand where you are coming from. 

You are watching it happen - if you choose to see it.

[The White Tiger]

For a "blast from the past" moment - contemplate what's happened since the law was passed, and when we were talking about it, then...and consider this:

Met a young man recently graduated and on a "sabatical" - he'd started out as a business major at a local, private university - he didn't like all the math, and he didn't like the job opportunities available to him in that career path. He also didn't like the fact that he was going to have to repeat quite a few classes due to poor grades in "math-intensive" courses...so unbeknownst to his parents...he switched his major.

He reasoned that he liked helping kids, and he liked art (and mainly he liked that there was no math requirement)...so he jumped into the college path for "Art Therapy". He liked the fact that he wouldn't need to make up the classes he wasn't looking forward to...he applied for, and was approved - all on his own - a student loan to cover the final two years at the private university. He included two years of rent for an off-campus rental he split with he and a couple of other "Art Therapy" majors. I met him while hiking with my son - he was extremely bitter that he'd wasted $30,000 and 2 years on a degree that earned him an opportunity at a job that won't even pay $30,000 per year!!

....when I asked if he'd put any thought into what kind of pay a job in "Art Therapy" would command - BEFORE switching his major - he said he assumed that since he was going to be considered a "therapist" he'd make a decent living....but he found out that he was basically qualified to teach arts and crafts to sick kids (apprarently, his dad had asked him a similar question, which was the reason for the "sabatical")!

Imagine - these loans allow KIDS the ability to pursue ANY degree, as well as attain their student loan independent of their parents oversight - and can graduate before ever figuring out that they can't repay their student loans in the career field for which they studied!! The kid was almost dispondent and very bitter. He was also being pressured to come up with a payback schedule of the loan, or to sign up for his mandatory community service hitch (basically he has to "volunteer" a percentage of hours per week - in order to pay-off the debt he incurred pursuing a worthless degree)!

"Less and less I like this Yackobovski....."

[dbucfan]

It works so long as the producers are stupid enough to continue working, while earning less.

Hey JG?  Do you have any more info on the island lots?