Here, those of you anti-healthcare

[YoozaHo]

Are you not aware of the sumpreme irony of comparing a bill which aims to give health cover to the 10-15% of your country who don't have it, and comparing the main proponent of that bill, Obama to Nazis and the Gestapo and the like?

To be opposed to the bill is a very right wing view. Now....what was being a Nazi...left or right? Hmmmm.

Give your heads a friggin' wobble, yes if you're young and healthy it doesn't make a massive amount of sense. By that rationale anyone living in a nice big house in a nice area should not have home insurance coz they'll never get robbed, right?

Point is, you never know. I'm going to tell you a story, a young minor celebrity here called Jade was a young healthy 26 year old with about $4million in the bank from various TV things she'd done. Aged 27 she found out she had cervical cancer, by 28 she was dead. Her kids can look forward to that money when they turn 18 because of the National Health Service. If she'd have been ill in the US and uninsured because she was "young and healthy" and decided it was her right her kids would have been lucky to have had enough left over to have bought a beer when they come of age.

Ledt's disuss then. First, your history of the Nazi party leaves out the fact that it was first founded in the German Workers Party, a LEFT-WING revolutionary party. Anton Drexler recruited Hitler due to Hitler's oratory skills. Although Hitler despised socialists he was clever enough to use them due to the popularity of socialism at the time. He redefined Socialist by placing the term National in front of the new name for the party, The National Socialist German Workers Party. Hitler eventually overthrew the Bavarian right wing government because that government did nothing to stop him while Hitler was attacking Socialists and Communists. So you see, the Nazi's had there roots in the left wing but grew into an ideology all there own, primarily based in Nationalism and anti-Semantism, neither of which are true right wing ideologies per se, and definately not Conservative what so ever.

Now, comparing Obama to the Nazi's is somewhat flawed, unless you compare his Nationalistic tendencies, his oratory skills and his use of propaganda to promote his views of redefining America to his ideals. Obama is better compared to and is rightly a Fabian Socialist, a term you should be well aware of being a Brit.

As far as the 10-15% of the population not being covered, well that's just wrong. Those people have access to healthcare through legislative requirements of having to be treated through any emergency room.

The rest of your post is just crap.

This, i can take. Except you mis-spelt 'semitism'.

Anyhoo, are you saying then that the Nazi ideal, as it is stands today...is left wing? That's utter bollocks. It's not me comparing Obama to Hitler, it's some of you lot (might not be you personally and tbh i can't be arsed checking).

And are you suggesting there aren't millions of people in the US that would be CRUSHED financially were a medical emergency to arise?

S & B has educated me a bit on what's wrong with this healthcare bill and i work with an American (A Jacksoville native) who says America's just not ready for such a bill. But to come out and call Obama and his camp Socialist, Nazi, oppressive and all the other lovely terms being levelled at them, that's just ignorance in the extreme of what it meant to actually BE these things. Far as he's concerned he's trying to help the most needy in the country and what does he get for it? Likened to a man directly responsible for 20million deaths.

Classy.

[kevabuc]

Keep your lymey opinions over there across the pond. You have no dog in this fight and we kicked your butt out of the colonies over 200 years ago because of your screwed up government and king. If it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German right now.

This is so narrow minded and retarded it's absolutely hilarious. What are you, about 14?

Shouldn't you be more concerned with the sanitation standards in your NHS hospitals, or the massive debt your socialized medicine is mired in, or the funding cuts to hospitals that the debt has brought on, or the countless malingerers and hypochondriacs taking advantage of all the "free" medical services, or the number of people trading government supplied medical devices for beer and perfume, or the 12% of taxes going to your health services, or the 4000 patients per doctor ratios, or the fact the NHS was modeled on Lenin's Soviet healthcare system, and sholdn't you be thanking America for the billions and billions the taxpayers of this country have pumped into your failing system instead of coming in here and trashing those of us who don't want to become you!

This 14 year old personally wants to treat you in the same manner as your country has treated Michael Savage. I say ban you from visiting this site

A ban.....how very anti-first amendment.

And your history knowledge is absolutely garbage too.

Your assessment of the NHS and it's troubles, however, aren't far off.

I never said you should be denied any right to say anthing you want, I am merely saying you should be shown the same courtesies and treatment Michael Savage is b eing shown by your country. If you are such a proponent of our Constitutional rights for OUR citizens you should be embarassed by this treatment of one of our countryman for merely expressing his 1st Amendment rights by your country.

As far as my history expertise, I merely embeliished with literary license to have some fun.

[YoozaHo]

Keep your lymey opinions over there across the pond. You have no dog in this fight and we kicked your butt out of the colonies over 200 years ago because of your screwed up government and king. If it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German right now.

This is so narrow minded and retarded it's absolutely hilarious. What are you, about 14?

Shouldn't you be more concerned with the sanitation standards in your NHS hospitals, or the massive debt your socialized medicine is mired in, or the funding cuts to hospitals that the debt has brought on, or the countless malingerers and hypochondriacs taking advantage of all the "free" medical services, or the number of people trading government supplied medical devices for beer and perfume, or the 12% of taxes going to your health services, or the 4000 patients per doctor ratios, or the fact the NHS was modeled on Lenin's Soviet healthcare system, and sholdn't you be thanking America for the billions and billions the taxpayers of this country have pumped into your failing system instead of coming in here and trashing those of us who don't want to become you!

This 14 year old personally wants to treat you in the same manner as your country has treated Michael Savage. I say ban you from visiting this site

A ban.....how very anti-first amendment.

And your history knowledge is absolutely garbage too.

Your assessment of the NHS and it's troubles, however, aren't far off.

I never said you should be denied any right to say anthing you want, I am merely saying you should be shown the same courtesies and treatment Michael Savage is b eing shown by your country. If you are such a proponent of our Constitutional rights for OUR citizens you should be embarassed by this treatment of one of our countryman for merely expressing his 1st Amendment rights by your country.

As far as my history expertise, I merely embeliished with literary license to have some fun.

To be honest here I'm with you, Michael Savage although i MASSIVELY disagree with some of his views has the right to express them. Jacqui Smith is, with respect to her position, a twat.

[kevabuc]

Are you not aware of the sumpreme irony of comparing a bill which aims to give health cover to the 10-15% of your country who don't have it, and comparing the main proponent of that bill, Obama to Nazis and the Gestapo and the like?

To be opposed to the bill is a very right wing view. Now....what was being a Nazi...left or right? Hmmmm.

Give your heads a friggin' wobble, yes if you're young and healthy it doesn't make a massive amount of sense. By that rationale anyone living in a nice big house in a nice area should not have home insurance coz they'll never get robbed, right?

Point is, you never know. I'm going to tell you a story, a young minor celebrity here called Jade was a young healthy 26 year old with about $4million in the bank from various TV things she'd done. Aged 27 she found out she had cervical cancer, by 28 she was dead. Her kids can look forward to that money when they turn 18 because of the National Health Service. If she'd have been ill in the US and uninsured because she was "young and healthy" and decided it was her right her kids would have been lucky to have had enough left over to have bought a beer when they come of age.

Ledt's disuss then. First, your history of the Nazi party leaves out the fact that it was first founded in the German Workers Party, a LEFT-WING revolutionary party. Anton Drexler recruited Hitler due to Hitler's oratory skills. Although Hitler despised socialists he was clever enough to use them due to the popularity of socialism at the time. He redefined Socialist by placing the term National in front of the new name for the party, The National Socialist German Workers Party. Hitler eventually overthrew the Bavarian right wing government because that government did nothing to stop him while Hitler was attacking Socialists and Communists. So you see, the Nazi's had there roots in the left wing but grew into an ideology all there own, primarily based in Nationalism and anti-Semantism, neither of which are true right wing ideologies per se, and definately not Conservative what so ever.

Now, comparing Obama to the Nazi's is somewhat flawed, unless you compare his Nationalistic tendencies, his oratory skills and his use of propaganda to promote his views of redefining America to his ideals. Obama is better compared to and is rightly a Fabian Socialist, a term you should be well aware of being a Brit.

As far as the 10-15% of the population not being covered, well that's just wrong. Those people have access to healthcare through legislative requirements of having to be treated through any emergency room.

The rest of your post is just crap.

This, i can take. Except you mis-spelt 'semitism'.

Anyhoo, are you saying then that the Nazi ideal, as it is stands today...is left wing? That's utter bollocks. It's not me comparing Obama to Hitler, it's some of you lot (might not be you personally and tbh i can't be arsed checking).

And are you suggesting there aren't millions of people in the US that would be CRUSHED financially were a medical emergency to arise?

S & B has educated me a bit on what's wrong with this healthcare bill and i work with an American (A Jacksoville native) who says America's just not ready for such a bill. But to come out and call Obama and his camp Socialist, Nazi, oppressive and all the other lovely terms being levelled at them, that's just ignorance in the extreme of what it meant to actually BE these things. Far as he's concerned he's trying to help the most needy in the country and what does he get for it? Likened to a man directly responsible for 20million deaths.

Classy.

This ain't no spelling bee.

Nazism today, or Neo-Nazism today is more rooted in using religion and even mystical beliefs to support it and as such you could say it is so far right that it is still in a class by itself, but if it makes you feel better to lable it right, go ahead. Today's Neo-nazi's even spend most of their time denying the Halocost so I believe them to be rooted in insanity.

You can make comparisons to Hitler with any elected official but the problem is when making those comparisons most people will jump to the end conclusion of how Hitler murdered millions of people without seeing specific comparisons. I made a few comparisons and that is exactly what you did.

I am more concerned with the tens of millions of people that will be crushed finanially because of this promoted compassion of the Obama administration for those that aren't covered. You are the ignorant one to think this, progressives do not seek to take care of people out of compassion, it is out of control over their lives. Look at the Great Society of LBJ, how many of those people mired in poverty has this program helped after the trillions of dollars thrown at reducing poverty. Not one single percent reduction in over 40 years of compassion. This healthcare bill is just another Great Society.

To think that people won't be crushed financially now that this bill is signed is folly. A catastrophic illness is still going to crush people just due to out of pocket expenses and this is going to be the rllying cry for a single payer system in about 10 years. Meanwhile hundrfeds of million of Americans are going to have their premiums increase, businesses will fold and new business not created and that is going to put more strain or the healthcare system.

The major problem with our healthcare system is that it is rooted in a third party pay system that has had to endure hundreds of mandates put upon it over the last 50 years.

[kevabuc]

Keep your lymey opinions over there across the pond. You have no dog in this fight and we kicked your butt out of the colonies over 200 years ago because of your screwed up government and king. If it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German right now.

This is so narrow minded and retarded it's absolutely hilarious. What are you, about 14?

Shouldn't you be more concerned with the sanitation standards in your NHS hospitals, or the massive debt your socialized medicine is mired in, or the funding cuts to hospitals that the debt has brought on, or the countless malingerers and hypochondriacs taking advantage of all the "free" medical services, or the number of people trading government supplied medical devices for beer and perfume, or the 12% of taxes going to your health services, or the 4000 patients per doctor ratios, or the fact the NHS was modeled on Lenin's Soviet healthcare system, and sholdn't you be thanking America for the billions and billions the taxpayers of this country have pumped into your failing system instead of coming in here and trashing those of us who don't want to become you!

This 14 year old personally wants to treat you in the same manner as your country has treated Michael Savage. I say ban you from visiting this site

A ban.....how very anti-first amendment.

And your history knowledge is absolutely garbage too.

Your assessment of the NHS and it's troubles, however, aren't far off.

I never said you should be denied any right to say anthing you want, I am merely saying you should be shown the same courtesies and treatment Michael Savage is b eing shown by your country. If you are such a proponent of our Constitutional rights for OUR citizens you should be embarassed by this treatment of one of our countryman for merely expressing his 1st Amendment rights by your country.

As far as my history expertise, I merely embeliished with literary license to have some fun.

To be honest here I'm with you, Michael Savage although i MASSIVELY disagree with some of his views has the right to express them. Jacqui Smith is, with respect to her position, a twat.

OK, you can stay, I lift the ban request. But you have to agree with Michael's views on chicken feet.

Obama is a Socialist, a Fabian one at that. You got to learn to read between the lines.

[Loose cannon]

Kevabuc saying this aint no spelling bee is great coming from the king of gramar smack. Must suck to be you while the Dems are not only getting what they want but also apparently having some success in the public opinion polls. I guess youll be booking that trip to Costa Rica with Rush  for your next prostate exam.

[Biggs3535]

Kevabuc saying this aint no spelling bee is great coming from the king of gramar smack.

It's grammar.

[ONEBIGDADDY]

It also forced and will fine people who can't afford it, how is that right? If they can't afford it now, how will they be able to pay a 700 dollar fine for not having it. Or even worse, face jail time. Point is, im not paying for some idiot to have health care who isn't working.

Your point is not taking into consideration that they are not going to get the hefty penalty all at once. It will take time to get there and they did think out some of it to really help the poor with certain subsidies...OBD

[dbucfan]

Let's have a chuckle OBD - part of this HC bill funding is the money the Feds will root out of medicare fraud and abuse, overcharging and such the President said he knows exists.  And he is dedicated (I believe that was his word - might have been determined) to eliminating that loss of 50 to 100 BILLION DOLLARS a year - currently lost from Medicare and Medicaid.

Now if you were running those Federal programs - and someone found you might be losing 50 to 100 Billion a year - don't you think you would do something about it immediately - nothing yet.  But is seems all the folks in D.C. have known about this for years.

But that money will be used to fund the new bill.  How odd - all of a sudden a part of the Federal Government can put a stop to this fraud - and pour the money back into the program.  Am I missing something - or is this only reminding me of a Snake Oil Salemen's convention?

I can only imagine what another trillion dollars this country doesn't have will do for those folks in this country needing Health Care. 

[ONEBIGDADDY]

Chuckle...You should have seen the waste when we were told to spend money when we were in the military...They didn't want to have our spending cut...OBD

[Bayfisher]

But out of curiosity, what would you have government do if not to 'govern'?

This would be answered differently by every person.   A government should protect life, liberty, and property.   Hard to argue with John Locke on that one.   

[benchwarmer69]

The biggest question of all imo...Why would we want government involved with anything, especially healthcare?

They did a wonderful job with education so far.

Hell, lets just come up with one bill that says we give up our rights to the government and get it over with already. I mean, this country is starting to have more illegal immigrants than actual Americans, lets pay for them too. We can do it! We are the USA, we can do anything (as long as Obama says so)!

Next objective on Obama's sheet: Gun control...

[YoozaHo]

Keep your lymey opinions over there across the pond. You have no dog in this fight and we kicked your butt out of the colonies over 200 years ago because of your screwed up government and king. If it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German right now.

This is so narrow minded and retarded it's absolutely hilarious. What are you, about 14?

Shouldn't you be more concerned with the sanitation standards in your NHS hospitals, or the massive debt your socialized medicine is mired in, or the funding cuts to hospitals that the debt has brought on, or the countless malingerers and hypochondriacs taking advantage of all the "free" medical services, or the number of people trading government supplied medical devices for beer and perfume, or the 12% of taxes going to your health services, or the 4000 patients per doctor ratios, or the fact the NHS was modeled on Lenin's Soviet healthcare system, and sholdn't you be thanking America for the billions and billions the taxpayers of this country have pumped into your failing system instead of coming in here and trashing those of us who don't want to become you!

This 14 year old personally wants to treat you in the same manner as your country has treated Michael Savage. I say ban you from visiting this site

A ban.....how very anti-first amendment.

And your history knowledge is absolutely garbage too.

Your assessment of the NHS and it's troubles, however, aren't far off.

I never said you should be denied any right to say anthing you want, I am merely saying you should be shown the same courtesies and treatment Michael Savage is b eing shown by your country. If you are such a proponent of our Constitutional rights for OUR citizens you should be embarassed by this treatment of one of our countryman for merely expressing his 1st Amendment rights by your country.

As far as my history expertise, I merely embeliished with literary license to have some fun.

To be honest here I'm with you, Michael Savage although i MASSIVELY disagree with some of his views has the right to express them. Jacqui Smith is, with respect to her position, a twat.

OK, you can stay, I lift the ban request. But you have to agree with Michael's views on chicken feet.

Obama is a Socialist, a Fabian one at that. You got to learn to read between the lines.

Never tried them so i can't comment.

Far as Obama being a Socialst goes, how come that word automatically gets him lumped in with Stalin and Lenin? The idea itself isn't a bad one and doesn't make you a bad person. Problem is humans are inherently greedy and narcissistic so taken to it's extreme's socialism doesn't work. in the end you may be right, perhaps THIS bill falls down on some levels but surely you can't argue with the fact that help and some kind of reform is needed so as to give support to the tens of millions of americans for whom a visit to the hospital would be financially crippling?

[YoozaHo]

Spare a thought over here benchwarmer, if the US was as densely populated as the UK it would have 2.8 billion people in it and our government STILL have an open door policy.

But out of curiosity, what would you have government do if not to 'govern'?

[rgator13]

I am OK with any healthcare bill that President Obama would accept himself (see in my thread I started)

The Dems struck down an amendment last night that forces the statues of this healthcare bill on the Obama's and their administration

If its such a wonderful bill lets see how much Barry would like his wife and kids to be accontable to it

If it isnt good enough for Obama its not good enough for me