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dalbuc

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#60 : March 07, 2007, 09:00:15 AM

Explain

Let's try this: Let's look at just 4 positions: Pass rusher, passer, pass blocker, pass catcher. Where do the playoff teams have elite players (as in pro bowl players):
IND: QB, LOT, RDE, WR
CHI: LOT, RDE
NE: LOT, QB, LDE
NO: QB, LOT, RDE
BAL: QB, LOT, ROLB
PHI: QB, LOT
SEA: QB, LOT,
SD: QB, LOT, ROLB

In other words, playoff teams are built on high end pass rusher, passers and pass blockers and not WR's. Do you want a good Madden team or a good football team?

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

Fresh

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#61 : March 07, 2007, 10:36:40 AM

We need johnson. Thomas will be good but not a immediate impact as johnson will win us more games right away. Gruden needs to win now.
Wrong. On so many levels.

I won;t even bother to tell you why. I'll let Dalbuc explain it to you nice and slow...

Explain
The same reason Andre Johnson didn't turn around the Texans, Roy Williams the Lions, and Larry Fitzgerald the Cardinals. And that's assuming CJ is a star and not Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, David Terrell.
yup,yup,yup. 1 thing though the don't have in common with Tampa has old players that play alright, Cards,Lions,Texans are a very young team that plays decent.


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watson

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#62 : March 07, 2007, 10:43:55 AM

Explain

Let's try this: Let's look at just 4 positions: Pass rusher, passer, pass blocker, pass catcher. Where do the playoff teams have elite players (as in pro bowl players):
IND: QB, LOT, RDE, WR
CHI: LOT, RDE
NE: LOT, QB, LDE
NO: QB, LOT, RDE
BAL: QB, LOT, ROLB
PHI: QB, LOT
SEA: QB, LOT,
SD: QB, LOT, ROLB

In other words, playoff teams are built on high end pass rusher, passers and pass blockers and not WR's. Do you want a good Madden team or a good football team?

Dal,
Would the selection of Quinn or Russell shock you?

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

dalbuc

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#63 : March 07, 2007, 11:06:15 AM

Dal,
Would the selection of Quinn or Russell shock you?

No, in a lot of ways while I was being devil's advocate on Quinn for awhile I've finally realized I was making a lot of sense doing so. Quinn/Russell wouldn't disappoint me nor would it shock me. Garcia gives you the bridge to the future while the new guy rides the pine (and I am a believer in the ride the pine theory of development).

You get the QB now, you know this season is sort of a go to war with what you've got thing. We've added guys who are the "now" type guys so we can fight the good fight now. You have the QB knowing/hoping (and I know the risk with QB's) you have that spot solves for the next 10 years. Now next year you start beuilding up the parts around him because almost every other element of a team takes longer to develop than QB does. You get your pass rusher, pass blockers, WR's and whatever else over the next 2-3 years and those guys should enter their primes just as your QB is entering his. There's nothing wrong with that mode of thought.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

watson

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#64 : March 07, 2007, 11:21:52 AM

Dal,
Would the selection of Quinn or Russell shock you?

No, in a lot of ways while I was being devil's advocate on Quinn for awhile I've finally realized I was making a lot of sense doing so. Quinn/Russell wouldn't disappoint me nor would it shock me. Garcia gives you the bridge to the future while the new guy rides the pine (and I am a believer in the ride the pine theory of development).

You get the QB now, you know this season is sort of a go to war with what you've got thing. We've added guys who are the "now" type guys so we can fight the good fight now. You have the QB knowing/hoping (and I know the risk with QB's) you have that spot solves for the next 10 years. Now next year you start beuilding up the parts around him because almost every other element of a team takes longer to develop than QB does. You get your pass rusher, pass blockers, WR's and whatever else over the next 2-3 years and those guys should enter their primes just as your QB is entering his. There's nothing wrong with that mode of thought.

At first glance I was not in favor of it either, but like you, I thought about what was already here, what had been added and how it took teams like the Cowboys getting their major contributors at the skill positions for them to be a SB caliber team.  I think you could make a case for taking either one of these guys as the #4 choice and set the team up for years to come.  As we have seen there are failures at every position in the draft.  Gallery was supposed to be the next great LOT, BMW was supposed to be the next Key, etc, etc, etc.  But as Pat Kirwan said in a recent article "you just don't pass on potential franchise QBs". 

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

RedAlert

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#65 : March 07, 2007, 01:01:19 PM

Petitgout is by no means the end all for the LT position. His signing does give us experience, always good, and he was part of a top-notch running game, also good.

But I'm in agreement with those who say it doesn't change anything about the draft, except to soften the blow should Thomas not reach us. Nobody knows who's going to be there at #4, so it makes sense that we signed him because of the need at tackle.

Now, from that perspective, not knowing is CJ will be there, wouldn't it make sense that the Bucs would be actively pursuing a FA WR for the same reason? If WR is such a need, I can't see why we aren't even talking to any, that I know of anyway..


donny77

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#66 : March 07, 2007, 02:34:53 PM

Petitgout is by no means the end all for the LT position. His signing does give us experience, always good, and he was part of a top-notch running game, also good.

But I'm in agreement with those who say it doesn't change anything about the draft, except to soften the blow should Thomas not reach us. Nobody knows who's going to be there at #4, so it makes sense that we signed him because of the need at tackle.

Now, from that perspective, not knowing is CJ will be there, wouldn't it make sense that the Bucs would be actively pursuing a FA WR for the same reason? If WR is such a need, I can't see why we aren't even talking to any, that I know of anyway..
Like I've been saying, WR is NOT a "need."  If JT is off the board and CJ is there, you take him because he is the best value.  He is not a need.  If CJ is gone, we've lost out on a great player, yes, but the team will be just fine.  Galloway and Clayton are our starters.  Stovall is our slot.  We need to replace Galloway when he retires, but we have at least a year until we are forced to replace him.  Clayton's numbers will come up this year.  He may not be back to his "rookie" numbers because Galloway will still be the first target, but Clayton will look a lot better with improved QB play (from Simms or Garcia) and a line that can actually pass block.

CeriousBuc

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#67 : March 07, 2007, 02:47:17 PM

Dal,
Would the selection of Quinn or Russell shock you?

No, in a lot of ways while I was being devil's advocate on Quinn for awhile I've finally realized I was making a lot of sense doing so. Quinn/Russell wouldn't disappoint me nor would it shock me. Garcia gives you the bridge to the future while the new guy rides the pine (and I am a believer in the ride the pine theory of development).

You get the QB now, you know this season is sort of a go to war with what you've got thing. We've added guys who are the "now" type guys so we can fight the good fight now. You have the QB knowing/hoping (and I know the risk with QB's) you have that spot solves for the next 10 years. Now next year you start beuilding up the parts around him because almost every other element of a team takes longer to develop than QB does. You get your pass rusher, pass blockers, WR's and whatever else over the next 2-3 years and those guys should enter their primes just as your QB is entering his. There's nothing wrong with that mode of thought.

I agree with you here. I would not be shocked or disappointed with drafting our franchise QB with the fourth. Contrary to fandom belief, I fully expect both QBs to be gone before we pick for the same reasons you stated above. That would leave us with either Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson, Thomas would be a coup and Johnson a consolation prize in the "Build a Franchise Around One Player" sweepstakes. You build a franchise around 3-4 positons, QB, LT, RDE and possibly UT if your a fan of the cover two. I fully expect the Top 3 teams to at least consider and more than likely draft one of the top two QBs if available. I don't forsee Quinn falling any lower than 4th as some of the talking heads have predicted.
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