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Caveat Emperor

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#30 : April 26, 2010, 11:21:45 AM

If McCoy turns out to be the real deal, you'll see him start to draw the double team frequently. That leaves the offensive line with a lot of poor options -- namely leaving Price iso'd 1-on-1 with his man. On passing downs, I like the possible outcomes from that kind of matchup.

What Steve fails to point out (and I generally like his stuff, so I don't want to rag on him too badly) is that interior pressure makes any secondary look light-years better. Interior pressure clogs throwing lanes, obstructs quarterback vision (as their giant linemen get pushed back from the point of attack), and disrupts the quarterback's ability to step into throws. This leads to more batted / tipped balls (which can result in INTs), errant throws (as the QB is forced to guess where the WRs are going to be), and throws without the necessary zip to make it through the coverage (leading to INTs). With interior pressure, I have no doubt that Talib & Tanard can make this secondary work.

We've rarely seen the Tampa 2 operating with two guys who can get interior pressure quickly. If things work out with both Price and McCoy, I think you'll start to see high-level play from most of the secondary and outright elite play from Talib and Tanard. The last few years, the secondary has been asked to do the impossible: cover while the QB stands and scans the field -- and frankly, they've looked bad.

Hopefully that's all about to change.

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#31 : April 26, 2010, 11:24:53 AM

I have not lost faith in Miller, he will be the starting nose tackle I predict and I don't believe he will disappoint. I agree with White's analysis of Price as a player to an extent, which is why I really like this move. I think Price will be a very effective under tackle as well as a nose tackle. I think he is the kind of guy that can do both well and spell either McCoy or Miller.

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#32 : April 26, 2010, 11:31:39 AM

I hope SW is wrong on this one. We'll see.

he's just trying to sell papers with this article.

LOL. What paper would that be?

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#33 : April 26, 2010, 11:44:15 AM

Steve White complained when he was here, and all he does is complain about the Bucs now.  If we had drafted Dunlap, Griffen, or Wooten over Price, he would have said that we reached for a DE.

More from the same article...

I feel great about Benn and Mike Williams on offense. Both guys are tall, physical receivers who will go up and get the ball in traffic and have speed to stretch opposing defenses. Having seend Mike Williams torch USF repeatedly even when it was obvious that he was pretty much the only offensive weapon that Syracuse had and against true double coverage on almost every play, I am a big believer in his abilities. I am still somewhat wary of his quitting on the team but on the other hand I believe that the Bucs organization has a close enough relationship with Syracuse's coach, Doug Marrone, that if his actions were a deal breaker we never would have taken him. If we can give Freeman enough time, I think those two guys will help put some pop back in our offense and actually begin to strike fear in opposing secondaries.

I also like McCoy, Price and Myron Lewis a lot individually if not collectively. I think Lewis is going to be a physical corner somewhat in the same mold of Aqib Talib and that he will eventually transition into the role in nickel that Ronde has played for our defense for over a decade now. Early downs aside, I do feel like Price and McCoy will at some point in the season give teams fits on 3rd downs with their pass rush and help to make our defensive ends' pass rush better as well with their push, keeping opposing quarterbacks from stepping up in the pocket to avoid the ends' speed rushes.

I'm even excited about Cody Grimm and Dekoda Watson on special teams and I have heard that Erik Lorig will be a very hard worker on the defensive line and on special teams as well.

What it comes down to for me is that we didn't do enough with the picks that we had and that leaves us with a few too many question marks in my book.


I will say that this grade is definitely still in flux. In the fall the players' production could push it up or down. Also if the Bucs finally decide to bring in a few free agents to cover the spots we didn't get to in the draft, that could push it up as well. But it also could go in the other direction. If Price doesn't transition well as a nosetackle. If Williams doesn't make a major contribution this year. If Lewis doesn't end up starting at nickleback this grade, like our season, will likely be going down.

Keep in mind that its definitely still early, but for me this is how we look on paper. I am sure some folks will say I'm too negative while others will be apoplectic that I'm even this positive. Can't help it folks, I tell it like it is and how it comes together in my own mind. In the end its still just a prediction/projection, nothing more and nothing less. Its up to you whether you buy it or not.


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#34 : April 26, 2010, 11:49:46 AM

The problem is he overrates Price as a UT. He thinks, like some here did,  Price is a pass rusher but he's not that guy and that is the missing part. He's just a McFarland type player.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#35 : April 26, 2010, 11:56:36 AM

Figure 60 plays a game with 2 DTs on the field.

McCoy 45 snaps at UT
Price 15 snaps at UT, 20 at NT
Miller 30 snaps at NT
D. Moore 10 snaps at NT

The UT break down is 75% McCoy, 25% Price
The NT break down is 33% Price, 50% Miller, 17% D. Moore

Subbing is a huge and under-rated aspect of DL play. We can keep McCoy and Price fresh (especially Price). You don't want these guys out of gas in the 4th qtr. And we can use a 5 man DL in goal line situations. K. Moore and McCoy at DE. Price, Miller, D. Moore at DT.

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#36 : April 26, 2010, 11:56:52 AM

If McCoy turns out to be the real deal, you'll see him start to draw the double team frequently. That leaves the offensive line with a lot of poor options -- namely leaving Price iso'd 1-on-1 with his man. On passing downs, I like the possible outcomes from that kind of matchup.

What Steve fails to point out (and I generally like his stuff, so I don't want to rag on him too badly) is that interior pressure makes any secondary look light-years better. Interior pressure clogs throwing lanes, obstructs quarterback vision (as their giant linemen get pushed back from the point of attack), and disrupts the quarterback's ability to step into throws. This leads to more batted / tipped balls (which can result in INTs), errant throws (as the QB is forced to guess where the WRs are going to be), and throws without the necessary zip to make it through the coverage (leading to INTs). With interior pressure, I have no doubt that Talib & Tanard can make this secondary work.

We've rarely seen the Tampa 2 operating with two guys who can get interior pressure quickly. If things work out with both Price and McCoy, I think you'll start to see high-level play from most of the secondary and outright elite play from Talib and Tanard. The last few years, the secondary has been asked to do the impossible: cover while the QB stands and scans the field -- and frankly, they've looked bad.

Hopefully that's all about to change.
I'm with you emperor...i understand where White is coming from but Price is a great pass rusher as well and between him and McCoy one is going to be able to do that at the next level hopefully both. So Price is great insurance in that regard. Plus in passing situations both Price and McCoy will be able to play like UTs penetrating and getting upfield not having to worry about eating up blocks.

Price would've been a great UT but he'll get utilized a ton in Raheem's defense of that I am sure. Raheem is already probably drawing up new schemes to take advantage of Price's skill set at NT.

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#37 : April 26, 2010, 12:02:50 PM

Shouldn't there be an unwritten rule that ex-football players should have to at least been decent players/articulate individuals in order for their opinion to matter. Steve White is a MORON if he thinks drafting a potentially dynamic duo at DT (our weakest position) for the next 10 years is/was a bad idea.

FAIL!

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#38 : April 26, 2010, 12:05:20 PM

I'll take Booger/Price the nose tackle...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#39 : April 26, 2010, 12:22:48 PM

Vikings Pat williams and Kevin Williams= Brian Price and Gerald McCoy

who does not want that


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#40 : April 26, 2010, 12:29:25 PM

It makes alot of sense. If anyone has any question about it, watch Sims and Hovan in the 2009 season. No excuses.

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#41 : April 26, 2010, 12:39:45 PM

This post does not make a lot of sense. I appreciate the opinion, but rest assured the Bucs made over their entire defense with this year's draft. McCoy has a chance to be dominant, Miller is the run support and Price looks like he can rotate between both positions. The Bucs have taken the team's weakest position going into the draft and turned it into arguably its strongest position going forward. For those who know their draft history, a guy by the name of Bill Walsh used to employ this method, which often resulted in him taking numerous, similar players in the same draft.

I do not think the Price pick means they are scrapping Roy Miller. What sense would that make? This FO drafted him afterall. Between Freeman and McCoy the Bucs have solidified a foundation for many years to come. I think they did a very good job and firmly believe that McCoy will exceed expectations in Tampa.

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#42 : April 26, 2010, 12:48:36 PM

Mr. White you sound ridiculous. How does it not make sense? Wether we have Brian at nose and McCoy at the 3 with Miller backing up both guys, OR we have miller at nose with McCoy at the 3 with Brian backing up both guys.....it isn't very complicated. We have three young exciting DTs that can all get after the passer and stop the run. No more depending on Hovan or Sims. It was a great pick up. How can you disagree? Mr. Whites post just doesn't make sense to me.


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#43 : April 26, 2010, 12:59:42 PM

he's just trying to sell papers with this article.

LOL. What paper would that be?

guess that phrase is a bit outdated nowadays.  "hes just going for page views", hows that work?

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DanTurksGhost

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#44 : April 26, 2010, 01:07:02 PM

I expect that at some points this season you'll probably see Miller, McCoy AND Price on the field at the same time.
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