java got me. finally hooked me. lets talk Jon gruden.

[kjbugman]

They are both average.
Jon just entered a situation with some HOFer's at the top of their game

[benchwarmer69]

Gruden was a GREAT HC. I will never doubt that, and I wish he was still the HC. But there was a few problems that weren't getting dealt with.

There was not one QB that he "groomed." They were all brought in (if they were any good). I don't care that Gruden rolled that way, but continuiously investing in older players will eventually hurt a team. At SOME point, you have to "restock."

Secondly, players didn't "quit" on him, they were disgruntled. Gruden ran a tight ship, and didn't want to take crap from anyone. The guy that "tortures" you all day in training camp, you might not like much at the end of the day. Our 3-13 record suggests Rah is to lenient, and there needs to be someone that can bring the wrath down on a lazy player if need-be. So was Gru all that bad from a fan perspective? There is no way a team wins without a HC "putting their foot down" sooner or later imo.

And lastly. His ego was getting disproportionate for his coaching abilities. He was a great HC, no doubt, but the guy wasn't Bill B, and yet he acted like it. To be a HC, you sometimes have to have big brass ones to make other people feel like you can lead them. You have to show confiance, but you also should show some humility. He took a page right out of Bobby Bowdens book, and took most of the credit for himself in most cases.

Regardless, I would rather have just about anyone over Rah. For all of Grudens faults, there is no question as to who the better HC is. Imo it's a damn shame that we couldn't have had Morris as our DC, Olson as OC and Gruden as HC and had someone else like Mark to call the draft/FA choices. Morris could have grew into his future position with much less struggling, and that group might have proved "decently effective", which was always Gru's MO.. But hindsight is always better than foresight.

[Hate]

Gruden was a GREAT HC. I will never doubt that, and I wish he was still the HC.

Great..... or right guy, right time? Question: what does Gruden bring to the table over a Mike McCarthy or Sean Payton?

Good that you two talked - would have thought you might have had something better to talk about.

SBF and I talk about all kinds of "ish"

[cheveliar]

I'm sure Chev will be calling you a hater soon. Or he should, but I dought it.

Why would I do that?  I liked Jon but I've moved on. I support the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Raheem Morris as the head coach...I think my thinking is logical and rational.  Anything else would be crazy...Or the ramblings of a hater...

[CyberDilemma]

I personally blame Gruden for this whole player/league collective bargaining agreement dispute. Players are disgruntled because they no longer have a "safe haven" team where they can go play out their retirement years.

[Doug09]

I personally blame Gruden for this whole player/league collective bargaining agreement dispute. Players are disgruntled because they no longer have a "safe haven" team where they can go play out their retirement years.

LOL!!!

+1

[LABuc]

I personally blame Gruden for this whole player/league collective bargaining agreement dispute. Players are disgruntled because they no longer have a "safe haven" team where they can go play out their retirement years.

LOL!!!

+1

LMAO!

+2

[Samari28]

Give Raheem some time and I will be willing to say that Raheem is more of a defensive guru than Gruden is an offensive guru.  Hell Raheem might even know more about offense than Gruden as Raheem was coach for what a couple of months and he did something Gruden could never do - draft and play a quality QB in Freeman and get a stud in her like Winslow in his prime rather than sign Garcia, Griese, draft Simms, sign Charlie Garner - name one big time FA or draft pick under Gruden then name me one that was on offense!!!

[Hate]

Keenan McCardell....gotta give credit where credit is due.

[CyberDilemma]

Keenan McCardell....gotta give credit where credit is due.

Oh, yeah....the same guy they ended up having to trade away because Gruden said he would be "taken care of" with a new contract and didn't follow thru.

[JavaBuc]

One thing you can't take away from Java is the dude knows his Bucs history and not like look up stuff on wiki know it . Like know it know it , and only a true fan does that .
 .

No doubt, but that comes with being 40-50 years old.

java knows the history, but hes been proven wrong a few times lately.  this comes to mind most recently...

You are simply a liar.� � Gruden never coached a game for the Bucs that was even close to that bad at home.� �None.� � Look it up in his entire 7 years and show me a game at home that was that bad.� �

Ravens in 2006



And Steelers in 2002 was just as pathetic as the Jets game last year. Gruden has no idea what to do vs great blizting teams. He just called his same stupid bunch formations and got the QB killed.

Neither of those games were as bad as the Jets.   And in my original post, I mentioned the Ravens game.  How did that get edited out of the quote of my post?   LOL!   Not surprised.     At least the Bucs got some first downs in those games.   Shaun King was pathetic in that Steelers game.   The Bucs scored when they put in Rob Johnson (no champ himself, but at least he moved the ball in that game).    No way was that Steelers game as bad as that Jets futile butt kicking.    That Jets game was probably the worst game in Bucs history.       

[JavaBuc]

The next worse home loss in the last 10 years relative to that Jets game was the Giants game last season.

[Samari28]

Keenan McCardell was good but hardly a stud Hate.  Sorry but if McCardell is the best he signed/drafted that is pretty pathetic!!

[CyberDilemma]

The next worse home loss in the last 10 years relative to that Jets game was the Giants game last season.

2006 season Game 1 Baltimore 27 Tampa 0.

[JavaBuc]

Funny how the only comparison to Heemy anyone ever draws is to the 2006 season...