Where are all the posters that say the only thing that matters is W & L

[Biggs3535]

Wow...you had the crystal ball nobody else did.

[redtab78]

Which one of you thought the Bucs would be 4-3 right now at the beginning of the season?

I was expecting a 5-2 by now.....thinking our 2 looses would have been from Indy and Tenn...

[SnookAU]

Well it might be meaningful to some teams but not to the Bucs:

Sea - lost game by 14, TOP almost even
NO - won game, lost TOP
StL - won game, lost TOP
Ten - won game, lost TOP
Det - lost game, won TOP

[mjpwooo]

4-3, second in the division.  With 4 games to go against some bad division opponents.  We beat Carolina at home, and pick up for more W's, I think the division is ours.

Would you be upset if that scenario occurred, but we didn't have 10 wins?

[SunnyD]

We should prepare for 4-4.


The Saints are coming on strong.


Things need to be fixed quickly.

[dbucfan]

I remember a fairly large group making a TOP argument - and to an extent I agree with it as a factor in the meaningful stat of w/l snook.  And when and if the dline improves (either this year or next) the d will be much better. 

Buccs won damn near every meaningless stat yesterday. 

[benir0]

Well the Bucs are currently sitting at one game above 500 and could be at 500 after next weeks game with the Jags. So I guess then it wont be about the wins and losses then will it.

Well, after a win, everyone comes out over-excited, after a loss everyone thinks the sky is falling, judging from the vibe on the boards (see: this thread).  My opinion of this team is still that it's about a .500 team that will compete for a playoff spot, but won't go deep in the playoffs.

The team has weaknesses, yes.  I suppose some people argue that fact...whatever.  I guess my point is:  4-3, baby, YEAH!!!  All about the W-L!!! 

Next week, I'll celebrate the "Glass half full" at 4-4 if need be...I'm a Bucs fan, and I'm going to pull for the team and stick by them.

[alldaway]

Mediocre: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance

The Bucs and the Lions are both of moderate or low quality. I expect both teams will finish roughly 8-8, which I think is the very definition of moderate quality.

Your definition fits pretty much every winning team in the NFL right now (with exceptions to the Pats and the Colts).  Moderate quality = average but you consider it mediocre.  Which I find absurd to be honest.

There really is no shame in being mediocre in the NFL -- part of what parity ensures is that there are a couple really good teams, a couple really bad teams, and the rest of the league is mired somewhere in the middle.

This Tampa team isn't great. It isn't awful either. What else would you call them other than mediocre?

The word you are looking for is average but you do not want to use a word like that becuase you do not want to be honest.

TROLLING: someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.

You have proven over a long period of time that you are troll.  Your track record speaks for itself when it comes to your "honest" football discussions.

I don't think anything I'm saying is remotely controversial. I'm not yelling to fire Gruden or burn some assistant coach at the stake. I'm not trying to bait people either.

Calling an average team mediocre is not controversial?  Calling the Lions mediocre even though they are above .500?  Please enlighten me on what you consider controversial?

Baiting is your special suit becuase all anyone needs to do is look at your posting record on this board.  If you believe this is an 8-8 team that means that there will be some more wins.  I anticipate we shall see you posting during those weeks?  I honestly hope so.

I don't see why when I post should be an issue. Take issue with what I'm saying, not the fact that I'm not a "good" Bucs fan in your estimation.

I am taking issue with what your saying becuase it is consistent with when you post and how you post.  A Bucs fan that only posts during losing weeks is not a Bucs fan.

[jerseybucsfan]

OK, so here's the out for Gruden haters. We've lost enough players now so that clearly we're NOT an elite team. We're obviously not as good as we might have been and every win is going to be difficult. So while we MIGHT win 9 or 10 games and might win the division, the lack of a convincing nature will make any accomplishment less than it is, right?
I'm not trying to defend Gruden. I don't have to. When he is finally driven out of town, which could happen this year, maybe sometime shortly thereafter, he'll find success elsewhere, proving how foolish this tack is.
Feel better about a loss? I can handle a loss just fine. I remember a lot of them in the history of this team, but the lack of ability to stay together by this fan base is the worst I've ever seen and far more troubling than one game, one season. The microanalyzing to emphasize every negative aspect and make the optimists feel worse is loathesome.
You keep emphasizing the Philly game like it's the defining moment in the NFL season. Well, a little history lesson:
The 1999 Bucs lost 45-0 in Oakland and still went to the NFC title game. The 1970 Cowboys lost 54-13 to Minnesota and 38-0 to St. Louis at HOME and still went to the Super Bowl. The Raiders lost 48-17 to the Patriots in 1976 and the Eagles en route to the NFC title game in 2003, of course, lost to us 17-0. Now you say ALL of those teams were good teams, but the 2003 Bucs on that list went 7-9. The '70 Cardinals went just 8-5-1. The '99 Raiders were only 8-8.
The point is that if you play awful, as the Lions did in Philly, you can get routed by anyone. They played their secondary too far off the line and McNabb ate them for lunch. Our secondary today played similarily soft and while we have more talent than they do, we did zilch, not creating a single turnover.
The Lions are OK; we should have beaten them. You can't have it both ways; if you go 10-6, it means six times you lost. If you lose to all good teams, then skeptics say 'They didn't beat anyone,' whereas if there's a loss to a mediocre or bad team (or more) in there, they say 'They stink cos they couldn't even beat that lousy team.'  This is the epitome of playing both ends.
We weren't impressive today, but OTOH if we get similar opportunities next week and cash in on them, we have a good chance to win.
Can we win the turnover battle and get 20+ points next week? If we can, then we have an excellent chance.

[Caveat Emperor]

If you knew the Lions had a winning record why did you call them mediocre?  Do you know the definition of mediocre?  If so please give me your definition of mediocre becuase a winning team does not fit into the defintion that is recognized by many as
mediocre.

Mediocre: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance

The Bucs and the Lions are both of moderate or low quality. I expect both teams will finish roughly 8-8, which I think is the very definition of moderate quality.

Congratulations.

Your defintion of "soft" winning teams can be applied to all winning teams currently in the NFL not named the Colts and Patriots.  Are you sure you want to stick with that definition?

There really is no shame in being mediocre in the NFL -- part of what parity ensures is that there are a couple really good teams, a couple really bad teams, and the rest of the league is mired somewhere in the middle.

This Tampa team isn't great. It isn't awful either. What else would you call them other than mediocre?

Yes?  If you post only after losses the majority of the time what does that make you?  A Bucs fans posts whether a W or a L is put up.

It is no longer called an opinion (not even an honest opinion) when you decide to post only after losses.  That is called trolling.

TROLLING: someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.

I don't think anything I'm saying is remotely controversial. I'm not yelling to fire Gruden or burn some assistant coach at the stake. I'm not trying to bait people either.

I don't see why when I post should be an issue. Take issue with what I'm saying, not the fact that I'm not a "good" Bucs fan in your estimation.

[alldaway]

I knew the Lions had a winning record. I also knew they had been destroyed by a pretty sub-par Philly team and had struggled against virtually every 'good' defense they'd played.

If you knew the Lions had a winning record why did you call them mediocre?  Do you know the definition of mediocre?  If so please give me your definition of mediocre becuase a winning team does not fit into the defintion that is recognized by many as mediocre.

And yet the Titans are a superior team than the Lions recognized by most NFL fans.  But the Titans could not prevail over the Bucs but the Lions did. 

I don't think anyone will disagree that Tampa snuck away with a win from the Titans. W-L are all important in the NFL for determining outcome to the season, but they're certainly less instructive about the abilities of a team than other metrics.

So why conviently ignore the metrics then?

Tampa and Detroit are both soft "winning" teams -- neither one is much better than a .500 club IMO.

Congratulations.

Your defintion of "soft" winning teams can be applied to all winning teams currently in the NFL not named the Colts and Patriots.  Are you sure you want to stick with that definition?

So, in order to have an opinion I have to post on specific days of the week? Please...

Yes?  If you post only after losses the majority of the time what does that make you?  A Bucs fans posts whether a W or a L is put up.

It is no longer called an opinion (not even an honest opinion) when you decide to post only after losses.  That is called trolling.

[Caveat Emperor]

We were extremely competitive and lost to a team on the road that is 4-2.

If you're resorting to building up the DETROIT LIONS to make yourself feel better about this loss -- wow. I mean, it's the Lions, the only reason they ever have a winning records is because they haven't been given enough opportunity to lose.

This is a team that got the everliving crap kicked out of it by a bunch of guys in Philadelphia wearing Halloween costumes for uniforms...

Its hard to shrug off a loss to mediocre team without coming to the conclusion that you are (at best) a mediocre team as well.

[sammy8887]

Here's how I see it:
vs JAC: W
vs ARI: W
@ ATL: W
vs WAS: W
@ NO: L
@ HOU: W
vs. ATL: W
@ SF: W
vs. CAR: W

12-4, maybe 11-5 season. 10-6 at the worst.

And I thought I was optimistic.

[Caveat Emperor]

The fact that you did not look at the Lions win/loss record before the game was played tells me all I need to know about your honesty.  You want to make an arguement that a team with a winning record is mediocre be my guest.

I knew the Lions had a winning record. I also knew they had been destroyed by a pretty sub-par Philly team and had struggled against virtually every 'good' defense they'd played.

And the Titans are a superior team than Detroit and yet the Bucs lost to the Lions but beat the Titans.  Making a black and white judgement is not a really sophisticated way of evaluating the team. But since this thread is titled wins and losses I guess for some simple minded people it is.

I don't think anyone will disagree that Tampa snuck away with a win from the Titans. W-L are all important in the NFL for determining outcome to the season, but they're certainly less instructive about the abilities of a team than other metrics.

Tampa and Detroit are both soft "winning" teams -- neither one is much better than a .500 club IMO.

Which I rarely see after a win.

So, in order to have an opinion I have to post on specific days of the week? Please...

[alldaway]

Never claimed to be credible, just honest and upfront about what I see and think.

The fact that you did not look at the Lions win/loss record before the game was played tells me all I need to know about your honesty.  You want to make an arguement that a team with a winning record is mediocre be my guest.

And, yeah they have a winning record, but they beat the worst team in the NFL, a Saints team that couldn't get out of their own way, and a Carolina team 1st week without Delhomme. Only really quality team they've beaten in my mind is Tenn.

And the Titans are a superior team than Detroit and yet the Bucs lost to the Lions but beat the Titans.  Making a black and white judgement is not a really sophisticated way of evaluating the team. But since this thread is titled wins and losses I guess for some simple minded people it is.

Again, just my opinion.

Which I rarely see after a win.