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Skull and Bones

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: July 21, 2010, 08:54:20 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

Arab guilty of rape after consensual sex with JewA man has been sentenced to 18 months in prison after telling a woman that he was also Jewish

Jo Adetunji and Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem The Guardian, Wednesday 21 July 2010

Arabs constitute about 20% of Israel's population, but relationships between Jews and Arabs are rare.  A Palestinian man has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew.

Sabbar Kashur, 30, was sentenced to 18 months in prison on Monday after the court ruled that he was guilty of rape by deception. According to the complaint filed by the woman with the Jerusalem district court, the two met in downtown Jerusalem in September 2008 where Kashur, an Arab from East Jerusalem, introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship. The two then had consensual sex in a nearby building before Kashur left.

When she later found out that he was not Jewish but an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault.

Although Kashur was initially charged with rape and indecent assault, this was changed to a charge of rape by deception as part of a plea bargain arrangement.

Handing down the verdict, Tzvi Segal, one of three judges on the case, acknowledged that sex had been consensual but said that although not "a classical rape by force," the woman would not have consented if she had not believed Kashur was Jewish.

The sex therefore was obtained under false pretences, the judges said. "If she hadn't thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have cooperated," they added.

The court ruled that Kashur should receive a jail term and rejected the option of a six-month community service order. He was said to be seeking to appeal.

Segal said: "The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price – the sanctity of their bodies and souls. When the very basis of trust between human beings drops, especially when the matters at hand are so intimate, sensitive and fateful, the court is required to stand firmly at the side of the victims – actual and potential – to protect their wellbeing. Otherwise, they will be used, manipulated and misled, while paying only a tolerable and symbolic price."

Gideon Levy, a liberal Israeli commentator, was quoted as saying: "I would like to raise only one question with the judge. What if this guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman?

"Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not."

Arabs constitute about 20% of Israel's population, but relationships between Jews and Arabs are rare. There are few mixed neighbourhoods or towns, and Arabs suffer routine discrimination.

Israeli MPs are considering a law requiring prospective Israeli citizens to declare loyalty to Israel as a "Jewish, democratic state". Many Arabs would balk at swearing allegiance to a state which they see as explicitly excluding or marginalising them.

Dan Meridor, a deputy prime minister in Binyamin Netanyahu's government, is opposed to the proposal. "Why does every bill need the word 'Jewish' in it – to show the Arab citizens that it doesn't belong to them? Then we're all shocked when they radicalise their stance.

"The majority doesn't need to remind the minority that it is in fact a minority all the time," he added.


white dragon

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#1 : July 21, 2010, 10:17:16 AM

wow stupid

Doug09

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#2 : July 21, 2010, 10:58:56 AM

I think the real story here is, are Israeli women really this easy?


alldaway

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#3 : July 21, 2010, 11:32:06 AM

To be honest I am not sure what to think anymore lol.

benchwarmer69

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#4 : July 21, 2010, 03:20:34 PM

IDK about there, but here, getting a woman in bed by lying isn't exactly rape. It may tick her off a bit, and she MIGHT accuse you of it, but it's not rape.

I say get it however you can get it as long as you aren't forcing someone.

If it were true here, would I have to show a lady my "rich-people's" card to get a ride? Life is not a stripclub lol.


dalbuc

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#5 : July 22, 2010, 08:44:36 AM

IDK about there, but here, getting a woman in bed by lying isn't exactly rape. It may tick her off a bit, and she MIGHT accuse you of it, but it's not rape.

I say get it however you can get it as long as you aren't forcing someone.

If it were true here, would I have to show a lady my "rich-people's" card to get a ride? Life is not a stripclub lol.

Yeah actually Rape by Fraud statutes are fairly common in the US at this point as well - and are all over Europe. 

The problem with them is, as you point out, what is actually "fraud". "Hey baby I drive a Porsche" usually isn't considered enough but beyond that things get a bit vague. Is "Hey baby, I'm a movie producer" just a bragging claim or does it imply the ability to swap sex for a job? The laws are bad all around and what makes this a bad get is that from the article he never claims to be Jewish. She made a bad assumption and that certainly can't be considered a high enough bar for fraud.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

benchwarmer69

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#6 : July 22, 2010, 01:29:47 PM

IDK about there, but here, getting a woman in bed by lying isn't exactly rape. It may tick her off a bit, and she MIGHT accuse you of it, but it's not rape.

I say get it however you can get it as long as you aren't forcing someone.

If it were true here, would I have to show a lady my "rich-people's" card to get a ride? Life is not a stripclub lol.

Yeah actually Rape by Fraud statutes are fairly common in the US at this point as well - and are all over Europe.

The problem with them is, as you point out, what is actually "fraud". "Hey baby I drive a Porsche" usually isn't considered enough but beyond that things get a bit vague. Is "Hey baby, I'm a movie producer" just a bragging claim or does it imply the ability to swap sex for a job? The laws are bad all around and what makes this a bad get is that from the article he never claims to be Jewish. She made a bad assumption and that certainly can't be considered a high enough bar for fraud.

Hey, if guys can get into trouble for sleeping with 15-17 year olds (that look older) because they didn't check a valid ID before the act, I'd be inclined to believe females can do their own background check on the guys they're going to give it up to..

But you are right, they do try that sort of thing as fraud here. I forgot all about that. Still, going to jail for fraud has got to be better than for rape.


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#7 : July 22, 2010, 01:50:30 PM

Death by castration....but slowly........one slice at a time.....then send the acorns air frieght to that nazi in Iran. With some western mayo and wheat bread.....

How long before the U.S. and Isreal and some other allies melt the Islamic threat? We can do it with air power, subs, satellites, drones......no ground troops needed.....Let's end this madness!!!

Doug09

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#8 : July 22, 2010, 04:46:42 PM

Death by castration....but slowly........one slice at a time.....then send the acorns air frieght to that nazi in Iran. With some western mayo and wheat bread.....

How long before the U.S. and Isreal and some other allies melt the Islamic threat? We can do it with air power, subs, satellites, drones......no ground troops needed.....Let's end this madness!!!

You siding with the Israel's on this one? Rape by deception is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Get rid of Religion altogether and solve everything.


dalbuc

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#9 : July 22, 2010, 05:03:05 PM

But you are right, they do try that sort of thing as fraud here. I forgot all about that. Still, going to jail for fraud has got to be better than for rape.

No, it is still a rape charge but the concept is rape by fraud or rape by deception to make it clear you didn't use force.

Usually these things were written to stop things like Dr's saying, I'm going to put an instrument in you and that instrument was their junk or someone claiming to be an OB/GYN using an exam.

That standard has been expanding:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/02/27/bill_aimed_at_closing_loophole_in_massachusetts_rape_laws/

Proponents said existing law must be tightened after a Westfield man allegedly had sex with his brother's girlfriend while posing as his brother in a darkened room, and a Wilbraham pharmacist allegedly posed as a gynecologist and gave exams to two women.

Ponder this as an interpretive nightmare - the text of the law:

""Whoever has sexual intercourse or unnatural sexual intercourse with a person having obtained that person's consent by the use of fraud, concealment or artifice, and who thereby intentionally deceived such person so that a reasonable person would not have consented but for the deception, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life or any term of years. As used in this statute, `fraud' or `artifice' shall not be construed to mean a promise of future consideration.""

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Skull and Bones

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#10 : July 22, 2010, 06:09:21 PM

I wonder if they would charge a Christian with this.  My guess is no. 


benchwarmer69

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#11 : July 22, 2010, 09:34:23 PM

But you are right, they do try that sort of thing as fraud here. I forgot all about that. Still, going to jail for fraud has got to be better than for rape.

No, it is still a rape charge but the concept is rape by fraud or rape by deception to make it clear you didn't use force.

Usually these things were written to stop things like Dr's saying, I'm going to put an instrument in you and that instrument was their junk or someone claiming to be an OB/GYN using an exam.

That standard has been expanding:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/02/27/bill_aimed_at_closing_loophole_in_massachusetts_rape_laws/

Proponents said existing law must be tightened after a Westfield man allegedly had sex with his brother's girlfriend while posing as his brother in a darkened room, and a Wilbraham pharmacist allegedly posed as a gynecologist and gave exams to two women.

Ponder this as an interpretive nightmare - the text of the law:

""Whoever has sexual intercourse or unnatural sexual intercourse with a person having obtained that person's consent by the use of fraud, concealment or artifice, and who thereby intentionally deceived such person so that a reasonable person would not have consented but for the deception, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life or any term of years. As used in this statute, `fraud' or `artifice' shall not be construed to mean a promise of future consideration.""

I get what you are saying man.

But how do YOU feel about it? (sorry for putting you on the spot lol.)


Personally, I think it's a crap charge. In my eyes, if a girl is over the age of 18, she should know better than to be THAT easy and check out if the guys a loser or not.


dalbuc

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#12 : July 22, 2010, 09:55:54 PM


Personally, I think it's a crap charge. In my eyes, if a girl is over the age of 18, she should know better than to be THAT easy and check out if the guys a loser or not.

The doctor type fraud to me is already covered by the lack of consent part of most statues beyond that, they are crap charges because it gets into too big a grey area as to what is a "fraud".

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

BucFan9720

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#13 : July 22, 2010, 09:59:38 PM

But you are right, they do try that sort of thing as fraud here. I forgot all about that. Still, going to jail for fraud has got to be better than for rape.

No, it is still a rape charge but the concept is rape by fraud or rape by deception to make it clear you didn't use force.

Usually these things were written to stop things like Dr's saying, I'm going to put an instrument in you and that instrument was their junk or someone claiming to be an OB/GYN using an exam.

That standard has been expanding:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/02/27/bill_aimed_at_closing_loophole_in_massachusetts_rape_laws/

Proponents said existing law must be tightened after a Westfield man allegedly had sex with his brother's girlfriend while posing as his brother in a darkened room, and a Wilbraham pharmacist allegedly posed as a gynecologist and gave exams to two women.

Ponder this as an interpretive nightmare - the text of the law:

""Whoever has sexual intercourse or unnatural sexual intercourse with a person having obtained that person's consent by the use of fraud, concealment or artifice, and who thereby intentionally deceived such person so that a reasonable person would not have consented but for the deception, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life or any term of years. As used in this statute, `fraud' or `artifice' shall not be construed to mean a promise of future consideration.""

I get what you are saying man.

But how do YOU feel about it? (sorry for putting you on the spot lol.)


Personally, I think it's a crap charge. In my eyes, if a girl is over the age of 18, she should know better than to be THAT easy and check out if the guys a loser or not.

This charge is 100% race motivated. Jews have had racial motives against Arabs for years. If this was a jewish guy lying to get her in bed, nothing would come of this.

cyberdude557

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#14 : July 23, 2010, 06:03:08 AM

If they did this law in America, half the country would be in jail for rape.
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