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The White Tiger

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« #15 : July 30, 2010, 01:37:28 AM »

What is completely ironic is that schools considered to be "elite", Ivy league types were all pretty much founded as Christian universities. What is telling is, that for all their bluster about colleges being "...the place to explore new ideas...", or "...the one time in your life you should open your mind..."

It certainly seems like the faculty and review board have their minds made up and refuse certain topics to even be considered - heaven Ford forbid, some issues are strictly off limits.

Did ever occur to these nimrods, that men who have held Christian belief were persuaded by those with differing and hostile opinions - a place in their universities in order to offer a contrasting view so that both sides of ANY issue could be considered?

Now, as the roles have reversed, it seems the men of science are less gracious and more closed minded about the proper things to believe.

As I said ironic - God allows man to excuse him from the table, man takes God's seat in the name of being fair, and when God comes back - man pretends he can't hear him - and muffles the ears of all who might want to make an informed opinion.

Sounds like the philosophy of everyones favorite dictator when he said something about - not having the votes meant he needed guns, but when he got the guns, he no longer needs the votes...

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lyronmewis

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« #16 : July 30, 2010, 03:18:53 AM »

What is completely ironic is that schools considered to be "elite", Ivy league types were all pretty much founded as Christian universities. What is telling is, that for all their bluster about colleges being "...the place to explore new ideas...", or "...the one time in your life you should open your mind..."

It certainly seems like the faculty and review board have their minds made up and refuse certain topics to even be considered - heaven Ford forbid, some issues are strictly off limits.

Did ever occur to these nimrods, that men who have held Christian belief were persuaded by those with differing and hostile opinions - a place in their universities in order to offer a contrasting view so that both sides of ANY issue could be considered?

Now, as the roles have reversed, it seems the men of science are less gracious and more closed minded about the proper things to believe.

As I said ironic - God allows man to excuse him from the table, man takes God's seat in the name of being fair, and when God comes back - man pretends he can't hear him - and muffles the ears of all who might want to make an informed opinion.

Sounds like the philosophy of everyones favorite dictator when he said something about - not having the votes meant he needed guns, but when he got the guns, he no longer needs the votes...

"God hates fags, you're going to hell" is an informed opinion now?

The bible is far from being about equality and fairness. It's been used as a justification for just about every form of bigotry out there.

I guess she should also hand out this level headed advice:

For women who have been found not to be virgins at marriage.

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
-Deuteronomy 22:20-21:

If you suspect your wife of cheating on you then follow this wise advice.

Numbers 5: 11-29

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5&version=NIV

This passage details an adultery test which is pure and simply fake magic superstitious crap. Then if they're not found to be virgins by the test, write some curses down on scrolls, put it in that water, then make her drink it and suffer.


I hope she shuts up at church too.

Corinthians 14:34, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."


Why is she even in a position of counsel?

Timothy 2:12

"And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. "


What if your daughter is sick and I'm looking for some help? I guess you could ignore the vengeful God of the OT and hope that Jesus is more loving and by his grace she will get better.

Matthew 15: 21-28

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+15&version=KJV

I guess she has to wait in line behind Israelites and take the crumbs that God allows her. Don't forget you have to beg him and throw rhetoric at him before he will oblige.


Everything worth taking from the Bible is already extracted and integrated into our morality, and it's not like it was original in the first place. We've ditched those other parts because they're crazy and bigoted. I don't see why homosexuality is allowed to be debated on biblical grounds or otherwise people like you will call out Christian oppression by atheists. It's not even atheists who are challenging this. The majority of the country aren't non-believers, they just realize the importance of secular beliefs. It's not very relevant that the Ivy League schools were originally Christian. I'm sure they were slave owners that used justification from the Bible too. I agree that she shouldn't have been kicked out of her program for her beliefs, but bringing up the oppressed Christian card is just laughable. Let's see how you would last in a real nation that actually held to the Bible word for word. Without reform and liberalization of the Bible through secular thought, you wouldn't even have things like free speech.
 

BucsGuru

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« #17 : July 30, 2010, 06:43:44 AM »

Taqibalib,

you certainly have a right to your opinion, and who am I to tell you any differently.  You mentioned several scriptures from the Bible, but I wonder if you have actually studied the historical and spiritual aspects of each and how they are applied?  Yes, many people read into scripture what they choose, but if the spirit is leading, it will become clear.

When did the Bible state it was about "equality"?  God is a jealous God and he shall have no other gods before Him.  You mentioned "everything worth taking from the Bible is already extracted and integrated into our morality", but the Bible says in the very last chapter/verse 19 that we are not take away or add to the word of the Bible.  Why are we "extracting" homosexuality, an obvious sinful condition that has been viewed as such throughout history?  Because of equality?  Now I ask you sir, where do we stop?  I'm as serious as I've ever been!  At what point do we stop "extracting" what "WE" think the Bible is wrong about??  That has been my argument when it comes to pedophiles, who have been pleading their case forever that they too are born with their condition, and they too want to just be accepted and not looked down upon.  When I mention this, others have posted it to be absurd since the child has no say so in committing the act of pedophilia.  How does many young boys become homosexuals in the first place?? 

You want to paint a picture of Christians being bigots and hateful, yet you refuse to look at the obvious deviant nature of homosexuality and pass judgement on it, the act of homoexuality, for fear of offending someone?  That's what's wrong with this country to begin with!  We want to be so darn politically correct, we have cowards who want step up to the plate and say what everyone already knows!  Does anyone really believe homosexuality and HIV is a coincidence??!!  Oh yeah, I know, there are millions of herosexuals with HIV too right?  Well if homosexuals wouldn't have had sex with them it wouldn't be such a problem.  Such a bigot right?  Take a look at the article below for what I'm talking about.  The discussion is about three men who are homosexuals living with HIV/AIDS.  One was straightforward about having a girlfriend and going to bathhouses on weekends for gay sex.  His excuse?  We didn't know about AIDS back then!  So I guess it was okay to sleep with your girlfriend and have a little anal sex on the side BEFORE you knew it might kill you?  Oh, and because we are "aware" of the dangers of HIV today, that means it stops those who are homosexuals from doing the same thing?  NO IT DOESN'T!!  The homosexual community wants you to believe they are couples in monogomous relationships, but the facts speak for themselves...most homosexuals admit to having multiple partners and enjoy the freedom that comes with being gay.  It's like saying we have less drunk driving deaths since everyone is aware that drinking and driving kills.

The agenda of the homosexual community isn't equality, rights, acceptance, but the legal right to pursue lustful pleasure without a consequence.  Sorry, but until they can cure HIV, there will always be a consequence.  So if you believe "equality" should be given to a "choice", then hang on, we are certainly in for a very crazy ride!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/07/23/30.years.hiv/index.html

PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE!!

dalbuc

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« #18 : July 30, 2010, 08:04:11 AM »

I agree to an extent and see the "where does it end" argument - but these kinds of things need to be contained on a case by case basis. 

The difference in the economics statement is that economists are never put in a situation where they're counseling kids with issues. One day, there could be a kid who wants to come talk to his counselor about this because he can't talk to his/her parents about it.  What in the world is she going to say?  "Kid, this is a choice".  Bam, emotionally scarred for life.

It would be up to her future employer if employers were legally allowed to ask about these things before hiring.  They're not. 

No but any profession has an "effect" on the world around it so saying there is a "real world" impact to counseling is also true of economics or science.

I'm as not-on-board with Creationists as anyone but if a creationist can pass all the classes to get a biology degree then bully for them their beliefs are not my problem. Holocaust deniers can get a degree in history (good news for plenty of people on this board) if they want.

What they can't do is write a paper on creationism  or holocaust denial and expect to get a passing grade because the material doesn't support that point of view.

I got an "A" in economics from a woman who was a Marxist. Didn't matter what I believed, what I put on the paper was acceptable and that is always as far as that should go.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Fitz66

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« #19 : July 30, 2010, 10:41:23 AM »

Now that one school has already dismissed a student for standing behind her belief, the pattern will be followed for sure across the country...in public schools no less funded by who?  CHRISTIAN TAXPAYERS!?  What is even more disturbing is that this could very well lead to theological schools losing accreditation due to teaching of their faith. 

Tell me again who the "minority" is??
Are you saying that because most of the people in the country identify themselves as Christian and pay taxes (I'd guess 15-20% are actually practicing Christians), Christians all over the country are entitled to a different set of standards and tax funded institutions should adhere to Christian beliefs? 

Minority...majority...whats that saying about two wolves and a sheep arguing about whats for dinner? 



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Snook

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« #20 : July 30, 2010, 04:07:55 PM »

I bet the guys high on opium who wrote the "Bible" would laugh their butts off at how seriously people take their "stories.

Religion is the world's biggest scam that preys on people insecurities.


BucsGuru

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« #21 : July 30, 2010, 05:31:49 PM »

We will see Snook...

The White Tiger

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« #22 : July 30, 2010, 06:32:32 PM »

Taqib - sorry if my belief offends your pursuit of happiness.

FitZ66 - your ignorance of Christianity's value to America notwithstanding: if 1% of the population has a problem with the law in their community, then they have the right of redress and thw rule of vote to change it. Otherwise, someone's always going to be pi$$ed - so when considering law based on who it offends in society...probably wise to offend the 1%, rather than the 20%...don't you think?

"Congress shall make no law..."

'nuff said...

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ONEBIGDADDY

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« #23 : July 30, 2010, 07:19:19 PM »

That is a state school that just ordered her to change her religious views. A private religious school I understand, but not a state school being supplemented by tax dollars. It has now crossed over to discriminating against religion.
You are exactly right and either way they have no right to tell how one is to do the Job  of a counsler. If the person say your not the one I should Council please find another or if the Person seeks to be counciled says I need someone who is more considerate of my needs then they have a right to move on. That is why the first hour of any counciling session is free...OBD


burger40

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« #24 : July 31, 2010, 01:47:26 AM »

What is completely ironic is that schools considered to be "elite", Ivy league types were all pretty much founded as Christian universities. What is telling is, that for all their bluster about colleges being "...the place to explore new ideas...", or "...the one time in your life you should open your mind..."

It certainly seems like the faculty and review board have their minds made up and refuse certain topics to even be considered - heaven Ford forbid, some issues are strictly off limits.

Did ever occur to these nimrods, that men who have held Christian belief were persuaded by those with differing and hostile opinions - a place in their universities in order to offer a contrasting view so that both sides of ANY issue could be considered?

Now, as the roles have reversed, it seems the men of science are less gracious and more closed minded about the proper things to believe.

As I said ironic - God allows man to excuse him from the table, man takes God's seat in the name of being fair, and when God comes back - man pretends he can't hear him - and muffles the ears of all who might want to make an informed opinion.

Sounds like the philosophy of everyones favorite dictator when he said something about - not having the votes meant he needed guns, but when he got the guns, he no longer needs the votes...

"God hates fags, you're going to hell" is an informed opinion now?

The bible is far from being about equality and fairness. It's been used as a justification for just about every form of bigotry out there.

I guess she should also hand out this level headed advice:

For women who have been found not to be virgins at marriage.

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
-Deuteronomy 22:20-21:

If you suspect your wife of cheating on you then follow this wise advice.

Numbers 5: 11-29

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5&version=NIV

This passage details an adultery test which is pure and simply fake magic superstitious crap. Then if they're not found to be virgins by the test, write some curses down on scrolls, put it in that water, then make her drink it and suffer.


I hope she shuts up at church too.

Corinthians 14:34, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."


Why is she even in a position of counsel?

Timothy 2:12

"And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. "


What if your daughter is sick and I'm looking for some help? I guess you could ignore the vengeful God of the OT and hope that Jesus is more loving and by his grace she will get better.

Matthew 15: 21-28

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+15&version=KJV

I guess she has to wait in line behind Israelites and take the crumbs that God allows her. Don't forget you have to beg him and throw rhetoric at him before he will oblige.


Everything worth taking from the Bible is already extracted and integrated into our morality, and it's not like it was original in the first place. We've ditched those other parts because they're crazy and bigoted. I don't see why homosexuality is allowed to be debated on biblical grounds or otherwise people like you will call out Christian oppression by atheists. It's not even atheists who are challenging this. The majority of the country aren't non-believers, they just realize the importance of secular beliefs. It's not very relevant that the Ivy League schools were originally Christian. I'm sure they were slave owners that used justification from the Bible too. I agree that she shouldn't have been kicked out of her program for her beliefs, but bringing up the oppressed Christian card is just laughable. Let's see how you would last in a real nation that actually held to the Bible word for word. Without reform and liberalization of the Bible through secular thought, you wouldn't even have things like free speech.
 
it is late so i will reply in full tomorrow but i'll have to address these point by point.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville

DBrooksIsMyDaddy

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« #25 : July 31, 2010, 06:36:17 AM »

  Does anyone really believe homosexuality and HIV is a coincidence??!!  Oh yeah, I know, there are millions of herosexuals with HIV too right?  Well if homosexuals wouldn't have had sex with them it wouldn't be such a problem.
Well, tell that to the families of all the little boys with hemophilia who ALL died from AIDS contracted through blood transfusions. :( I'm an RN who took care of some of these sweet angels, so ummmmm, YES you are a bigot. Blinded by your bigotry.

And BTW I agree that at a government-funded facility, freedom of religion trumps their stupid opinions on her beliefs. She should get her diploma and go start helping people.

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« #26 : July 31, 2010, 07:01:59 AM »

  Does anyone really believe homosexuality and HIV is a coincidence??!!  Oh yeah, I know, there are millions of herosexuals with HIV too right?  Well if homosexuals wouldn't have had sex with them it wouldn't be such a problem.
Well, tell that to the families of all the little boys with hemophilia who ALL died from AIDS contracted through blood transfusions. :( I'm an RN who took care of some of these sweet angels, so ummmmm, YES you are a bigot. Blinded by your bigotry.

And BTW I agree that at a government-funded facility, freedom of religion trumps their stupid opinions on her beliefs. She should get her diploma and go start helping people.
Wow...You mean their aren't exceptions to every rule?...Do we just like to throw wisdom, knowledge, understanding and counseling  out the window when promoting a certain thought without the thought of application to what is the point?...OBD


DBrooksIsMyDaddy

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« #27 : July 31, 2010, 07:30:00 AM »

  Does anyone really believe homosexuality and HIV is a coincidence??!!  Oh yeah, I know, there are millions of herosexuals with HIV too right?  Well if homosexuals wouldn't have had sex with them it wouldn't be such a problem.
Well, tell that to the families of all the little boys with hemophilia who ALL died from AIDS contracted through blood transfusions. :( I'm an RN who took care of some of these sweet angels, so ummmmm, YES you are a bigot. Blinded by your bigotry.

And BTW I agree that at a government-funded facility, freedom of religion trumps their stupid opinions on her beliefs. She should get her diploma and go start helping people.
Wow...You mean their aren't exceptions to every rule?...Do we just like to throw wisdom, knowledge, understanding and counseling  out the window when promoting a certain thought without the thought of application to what is the point?...OBD
I'm not sure I understand your point, but are you agreeing with BGuru that God is smiting the homosexuals (men only) with AIDS, but He wouldn't care about the thousands of non-homosexual hemophiliacs who have died of AIDS, many of them young boys? And what about the lesbians? God is sparing them? Does this make any sense to you? This is the kind of thinking that Ryan White had to deal with non-stop in his short life.

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« #28 : July 31, 2010, 07:57:11 AM »

DBMD - perhaps rather than assign his position to him in seeking OBD's point(s) you could simply ask without all the bs.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

DBrooksIsMyDaddy

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« #29 : July 31, 2010, 09:48:12 AM »

DBMD - perhaps rather than assign his position to him in seeking OBD's point(s) you could simply ask without all the a subject for debate.
Perhaps I could have, yes.  Or perhaps I could go back to my usual Red Board lurk status and staying out of homophobia threads. Yes, I think I'll take Option #2. Carry on.
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