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Tampa Bay Todd

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« #15 : August 14, 2010, 09:34:03 AM »

Again, the Muslim community has every right to build a community center and practice their faith. That is their right, absolutely. But did it have to be in this particular spot? New York is a big city, was there nowhere else this center could be built? The people behind this project had to know what kind of firestorm this project would set off. Sorry, but it was no accident that this spot was chosen for this project.


TheShadow

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« #16 : August 14, 2010, 09:36:07 AM »

Nice taqib. How dare the President uphold the rights of all Americans over the screaming toddlers?


Quit beefing about the past and start hoping for the future

TURBO

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« #17 : August 14, 2010, 10:26:34 AM »

I bet he would have let them build a Toyota Factory in Pearl Harbor in 1951.


Yup I think you guys should just put all the muslims in the country in internment camps instead.

Face it, political tension is temporary, but moral choices last forever. If there were any arguments other than ones filled with xenophobia and over the top nationalism, then it would make sense but such an argument doesn't exist. People only fall back on the constitution when it's relevant to their interests, yet those same people who believe so strongly in constitutional rights are the ones being the hypocrites. Gun violence kills 30,000 or so people in the US a year yet you don't see the majority of the population going out and protesting gun stores 2 blocks nearby all gun related deaths. The opponents are quick to cite the constitution and whatever meme they've been fed by the NRA as an infallible argument. Yet somehow you're questioning the constitution now, and actually think an argument like "it just isn't right" has any weight? It's honestly pathetic and intelligence-insulting how people forget history. This type of behaviour belongs in the Medieval or Bronze age.




Eat poop!

Move to the Middle East, just leave America...


TURBO

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« #18 : August 14, 2010, 10:29:47 AM »

Again, the Muslim community has every right to build a community center and practice their faith. That is their right, absolutely. But did it have to be in this particular spot? New York is a big city, was there nowhere else this center could be built? The people behind this project had to know what kind of firestorm this project would set off. Sorry, but it was no accident that this spot was chosen for this project.

and that is the real rub here...

there are literally thousands of places they could have built in NYC, yet they choose the shadow of the twin towers, and there are actually people who think this is ok?

How soon we forget that fatefull September day.  I myself will never forget it, and had this mosque been proposed one year later, it wouldn't have happened.  They waited until they thought we had forgotten, and the sad thing is, some already have, including a bunch of idiots on this very site.


screw anyone who thinks it's fine to disrespect our country like that.

SCREW THEM!


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« #19 : August 14, 2010, 11:20:32 AM »

I'd be more concerned if he didn't allow it.

x2.  We are either a free country or we are not.  I don't like it, but the greater crime would be disallowing it.


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ufojoe

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« #20 : August 14, 2010, 11:48:20 AM »

I'd be more concerned if he didn't allow it.

x2.  We are either a free country or we are not.  I don't like it, but the greater crime would be disallowing it.


Amazing how so many people don't get it.

Then again, when we see responses like, "Eat poop! Move to the Middle East, just leave America..." we really shouldn't surprised.

This is one of the few things that Obama has gotten right.

* * * * *

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0810/Bush_aide_backs_Obama_on_mosque.html

August 14, 2010

Bush aide backs Obama on mosque

President Obama's defense of Muslims' right to build a mosque near Ground Zero was a sharp rebuke to most of the contemporary Republican Party, but it was very much in line with the tone of his predecessor, George W. Bush, who had waged his own internal party wars over his insistence that Islam is a "religion of peace."

A former senior Bush aide, chief speechwriter Michael Gerson, told POLITICO last night that he supports Obama's decision.

"An enormously complex and emotional issue -- but ultimately the right thing to do," Gerson said. "A president is president for every citizen, including every Muslim citizen. Obama is correct that the way to marginalize radicalism is to respect the best traditions of Islam and protect the religious liberty of Muslim Americans. It is radicals who imagine an American war on Islam. But our conflict is with the radicals alone."

* * * * *

http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/08/11/ground-zero-mosque-controversy-shows-americas-new-nativism.html

The $100 million building they want to construct, called Park51 (for its address on Park Place) is not a mosque as such, but rather a community center with a restaurant, a swimming pool, a performing arts center, and, yes, prayer space. (Muslims, by the way, already gather weekly in the existing building to pray. Should they be barred from doing so?)

* * * * *

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/08/04/patrick_indicates_support_for_ground_zero_mosque

Less than a week after the (9/11) attack, Bush traveled to a Washington mosque, stood with Muslim leaders and said, "The face of terrorist is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace, they represent evil and war."


TURBO

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« #21 : August 14, 2010, 11:55:45 AM »

girl


dbucfan

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« #22 : August 14, 2010, 12:04:42 PM »

I bet he would have let them build a Toyota Factory in Pearl Harbor in 1951.


Yup I think you guys should just put all the muslims in the country in internment camps instead.

Face it, political tension is temporary, but moral choices last forever.

Not true - they don't


If there were any arguments other than ones filled with xenophobia and over the top nationalism, then it would make sense but such an argument doesn't exist.

The best one I could imagine it the supposition that allowing the building would engender feelings of victory throughout the muslim world

People only fall back on the constitution when it's relevant to their interests,

No - that is a subject for debate.

yet those same people who believe so strongly in constitutional rights are the ones being the hypocrites.

No - that is a a subject for debate overstatement

Gun violence kills 30,000 or so people in the US a year yet you don't see the majority of the population going out and protesting gun stores 2 blocks nearby all gun related deaths.

Are you familiar with the term "comparing apples to orangutans?"  You are now a qualifier in the annual worst comparisons of the year contest.  If you don't see the difference there is no way I can help you.

The opponents are quick to cite the constitution and whatever meme they've been fed by the NRA as an infallible argument.

What did the NRA say that hyped you up so much?  Whatever meme you have digested doesn't seem apropos

Yet somehow you're questioning the constitution now, and actually think an argument like "it just isn't right" has any weight? It's honestly pathetic and intelligence-insulting how people forget history. This type of behaviour belongs in the Medieval or Bronze age.

Have you spent time in the Ivy League or West Coast institutions of higher learning.  To not understand the impact of 9/11 had on folks who are simply not as highly educated (read as oblivious to an act of mass murder) and thusly forgiving as yourself is a shortcoming in the understanding of human nature.  Have you not noted how so many dislike the location but feel there is no rightful basis for the site to be used for a mosque?  Have you not read the posts and felt the hurt of folks who recall the mass murder of their fellow citizens?  Perhaps being in Canada let's one become dispassionate, and enables one to eliminate truly human feelings when mass murders take place.  Or perhaps you need to think about it some more.


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« #23 : August 14, 2010, 02:01:40 PM »

I fear the Muslims a lot more than the Christians because the Muslims are refusing to go through a reformation. Their religion is one from the dark ages and is very radical.

What's next? Are we going to start accepting Sharia law like the stupid Brits and Canadians are doing? This moral relativism in western civilization is completely ridiculous. Do you think the mid-east tolerates Christians and Jews the way we are tolerating Muslims? Will they ever tolerate Christians and Jews? Hell no!

Take a look at Europe. The countries with the highest muslim population are having the biggest cultural problems. Their religion is not at this time compatible with western culture. And it's causing a clash. Today, the vast majority of Christians operate under the philosophy of "let sinners be sinners." The Muslims don't do that. To many of them, the infadels have to die.

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« #24 : August 15, 2010, 04:29:19 PM »

The big question I have is why he felt he had to stick his oar in the water? He has no say in the "allowing" or "disallowing" the building of this place so what exactly was he trying t prove?

Oh, and I think it is a GREAT idea to open a gay and lesbian club right next door. That would get a few panties in a wad and others not knowing where to turn. That would be hilarious to watch.

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« #25 : August 15, 2010, 04:53:03 PM »

Have you spent time in the Ivy League or West Coast institutions of higher learning.  To not understand the impact of 9/11 had on folks who are simply not as highly educated (read as oblivious to an act of mass murder) and thusly forgiving as yourself is a shortcoming in the understanding of human nature.  Have you not noted how so many dislike the location but feel there is no rightful basis for the site to be used for a mosque?  Have you not read the posts and felt the hurt of folks who recall the mass murder of their fellow citizens?  Perhaps being in Canada let's one become dispassionate, and enables one to eliminate truly human feelings when mass murders take place.  Or perhaps you need to think about it some more.

Is it unpatriotic of me to find preservation of the Constitution more important than assuaging hurt feelings?

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« #26 : August 15, 2010, 05:03:22 PM »

Have you spent time in the Ivy League or West Coast institutions of higher learning. �To not understand the impact of 9/11 had on folks who are simply not as highly educated (read as oblivious to an act of mass murder) and thusly forgiving as yourself is a shortcoming in the understanding of human nature. �Have you not noted how so many dislike the location but feel there is no rightful basis for the site to be used for a mosque? �Have you not read the posts and felt the hurt of folks who recall the mass murder of their fellow citizens? �Perhaps being in Canada let's one become dispassionate, and enables one to eliminate truly human feelings when mass murders take place. �Or perhaps you need to think about it some more.

Is it unpatriotic of me to find preservation of the Constitution more important than assuaging hurt feelings?


I think this is one of those issues where a lot of people really do miss the point. Nobody (that I know of) is disputing the right to build this Mosque, but just because someone is allowed to do it, does not necessarily mean that they should do it. Remember that big old Confederate Flag on I4? I believe the arguments made to take it down, despite not breaking any law, is that it was insensitive to the feelings of African Americans. None of which I point out were alive when that flag last went into battle. A whole bunch of people were not only alive on 9/11 but were physically involved. It's a bad decision to build this here, and it is a bad decision for the President to comment on the matter when he did not need to.

Obamessiah

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« #27 : August 15, 2010, 05:09:31 PM »

I fear the Muslims a lot more than the Christians because the Muslims are refusing to go through a reformation. Their religion is one from the dark ages and is very radical.

Isn't it ironic that by remaining closer to the origins of their religion, they've become less palatable to a modern society? A lot of implications in that statement.

What's next? Are we going to start accepting Sharia law like the stupid Brits and Canadians are doing? This moral relativism in western civilization is completely ridiculous. Do you think the mid-east tolerates Christians and Jews the way we are tolerating Muslims? Will they ever tolerate Christians and Jews? Hell no!

So, are you advocating that we adopt their position of intolerance? That's what it sounds like. Personally, I don't want to become more like that.

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« #28 : August 15, 2010, 05:20:39 PM »


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Spartan, I think it is you who are missing the point here.

TURBO

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« #29 : August 15, 2010, 08:46:22 PM »

Have you spent time in the Ivy League or West Coast institutions of higher learning. �To not understand the impact of 9/11 had on folks who are simply not as highly educated (read as oblivious to an act of mass murder) and thusly forgiving as yourself is a shortcoming in the understanding of human nature. �Have you not noted how so many dislike the location but feel there is no rightful basis for the site to be used for a mosque? �Have you not read the posts and felt the hurt of folks who recall the mass murder of their fellow citizens? �Perhaps being in Canada let's one become dispassionate, and enables one to eliminate truly human feelings when mass murders take place. �Or perhaps you need to think about it some more.

Is it unpatriotic of me to find preservation of the Constitution more important than assuaging hurt feelings?


I think this is one of those issues where a lot of people really do miss the point. Nobody (that I know of) is disputing the right to build this Mosque, but just because someone is allowed to do it, does not necessarily mean that they should do it. Remember that big old Confederate Flag on I4? I believe the arguments made to take it down, despite not breaking any law, is that it was insensitive to the feelings of African Americans. None of which I point out were alive when that flag last went into battle. A whole bunch of people were not only alive on 9/11 but were physically involved. It's a bad decision to build this here, and it is a bad decision for the President to comment on the matter when he did not need to.

MVP post right there!

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