The Great Global Warming Swindle

Abuccs is just a weasel, ignore him

You're just a Red Sox fan, which doesn't make you any better than bed pan sludge.

Great defense there... Anyway who cares it is JUST baseball.

And it's JUST football, WTF is your point? Red Sox 'fans' are scum.

What a generalized, biased, and ignorant comment. O and BTW don't even try and get me started on why football is better. I realize it is JUST an opinion, but football is life man. Go to Boston and see how many fans you don't think are real there. Hell come to Fort Myers...

Oh they breathe, but they're scum.

Anytime you're ready to dance big boy...

You win on the baseball thing. I can tell you though there are some good Red Sox fans.

The mute ones?

[ABuccs Fan]

Abuccs is just a weasel, ignore him

You're just a Red Sox fan, which doesn't make you any better than bed pan sludge.

Great defense there... Anyway who cares it is JUST baseball.

Listen to the Junior varsity lineman who boasted about blocking for a nationally recruited prospect. You don't block for anyone from the bench scrub.

[ABuccs Fan]

You are such a jerk, Karen. Are you afraid someone might show you to be the fool you are? Why are you afraid of anything Buccs front office? That pretty much affects our fanship nowadays. If you don't like it, go start the whiney, baby TBBBB board. Now that I think about it, I object to your sig--it's better than my body. Get a life!

Soul searching? Good for you Karen.

Only a jackass changes someone's quote to fit their purposes.  And we're not talking football in here you a$$hole. If you don't like the thread stay the hell out instead of tattling like a school girl. Moron.

OH MY GOD....did you really just type that? That's hilarious, and the irony of all ironies. Superb display of what an idiot you are. Maybe ufojoe is your new internet dating partner, that's why all the defense. "My IM box or yours?"

[ABuccs Fan]

Yes, Karen and I get together and play with our Abuccs dart board and colorforms
sets. It's also fun to dress up the Abuccs doll like the shemale that it is. But the doll
is missing a set of something and tends to act like a child from time to time.

My ufojoe doll comes complete with a turban, and explosives strapped to it's belly.

[ufojoe]

Yes, Karen and I get together and play with our Abuccs dart board and colorforms
sets. It's also fun to dress up the Abuccs doll like the shemale that it is. But the doll
is missing a set of something and tends to act like a child from time to time.

[ufojoe]

My doll kicks your doll's ass. Your doll is interested in doing something to ass but kicking
isn't it.

[ABuccs Fan]

My doll kicks your doll's ass. Your doll is interested in doing something to ass but kicking
isn't it.

LMAO, you don't know the first thing about kicking ass. You nerdy grunge freak.

[ufojoe]

My explosive doll fights my battles for me.

[miamicanes04]

Whatever.. believe whatever the **CENSORED** you want abucs.

[klb55]

I have just finished watching it, well, listening to it would be a better description as I am at work and had it on in the background with headphones on.
However there are a few eye popping 'facts' shown. For example, they showed Al Gore with his graph about the warming of the earth and the rise in CO2. They then followed a scientist that showed that it was actually the other way around, that is the warming came first and then the CO2 rise followed. I obviously do not know how hard and fast any of the facts, for or against are, but it does show that the global warming is not so much 'proven science' after all. Which is something I have been saying for a long time.

That is correct.  Global Warming is leading CO2 increases by a couple of hundred years.  It appears that the increase in CO2 is a byproduct of the temperature increases.  The case that it is mankind's fault is pure propaganda.  Why is this propaganda and junk science being used in this manner?  Well, global warming has become big business and literally tens of thousands of jobs have been created.  It is being used to scare people and gain political power around the globe.  Maybe, it is an attempt to discredit capitalism and technological advancements.  The bottom line is Global Warming being caused by mankind is, at best, misguided and more likely an intention fraud in order to gain political power.   

[doobiedoright]

Well said sir!

[Chief Joseph]

I have just finished watching it, well, listening to it would be a better description as I am at work and had it on in the background with headphones on.
However there are a few eye popping 'facts' shown. For example, they showed Al Gore with his graph about the warming of the earth and the rise in CO2. They then followed a scientist that showed that it was actually the other way around, that is the warming came first and then the CO2 rise followed. I obviously do not know how hard and fast any of the facts, for or against are, but it does show that the global warming is not so much 'proven science' after all. Which is something I have been saying for a long time.

That is correct.  Global Warming is leading CO2 increases by a couple of hundred years.  It appears that the increase in CO2 is a byproduct of the temperature increases.  The case that it is mankind's fault is pure propaganda.  Why is this propaganda and junk science being used in this manner?  Well, global warming has become big business and literally tens of thousands of jobs have been created.  It is being used to scare people and gain political power around the globe.  Maybe, it is an attempt to discredit capitalism and technological advancements.  The bottom line is Global Warming being caused by mankind is, at best, misguided and more likely an intention fraud in order to gain political power.

Sure took a long time for everyone else to catch on.

[dbucfan]

I have just finished watching it, well, listening to it would be a better description as I am at work and had it on in the background with headphones on.
However there are a few eye popping 'facts' shown. For example, they showed Al Gore with his graph about the warming of the earth and the rise in CO2. They then followed a scientist that showed that it was actually the other way around, that is the warming came first and then the CO2 rise followed. I obviously do not know how hard and fast any of the facts, for or against are, but it does show that the global warming is not so much 'proven science' after all. Which is something I have been saying for a long time.

That is correct.  Global Warming is leading CO2 increases by a couple of hundred years.  It appears that the increase in CO2 is a byproduct of the temperature increases.  The case that it is mankind's fault is pure propaganda.  Why is this propaganda and junk science being used in this manner?  Well, global warming has become big business and literally tens of thousands of jobs have been created.  It is being used to scare people and gain political power around the globe.  Maybe, it is an attempt to discredit capitalism and technological advancements.  The bottom line is Global Warming being caused by mankind is, at best, misguided and more likely an intention fraud in order to gain political power.

Sure took a long time for everyone else to catch on.

+1  I guess it had to happen sooner or later....

[beardmcdoug]

Ok, here's the logic:

There is a cycle.  This cycle has three parts:
1. Atmosphere
2. Biosphere
3. Rocks

So in this cycle, Carbon (C) in one form or the other moves throughout these three parts.  The big factor here is TIME.  What matters is how quickly C moves between each domain, and to what degree.

As I said, in these three parts (1. Atmosphere 2.Biosphere 3. Lithosphere/Rocks) Carbon (C) can be in different forms:

A) Organic matter, such as CH2O or sugars or plant matter
B) CO2 gas, which rises to our upper atmosphere - Key part - will say more on it
C) CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate) Rocks / sea creature shells
D) other crap

Then, you have the mechanisms in which Carbon (C) gets moved between each domain:
A) Plants take CO2 from the atmosphere, put it in their bodies, die and get buried and after A LONG TIME (millions of years) and A LOT OF HEAT/PRESSURE, the dead plant turns into coal
A2) We'll call marine algae "plants" too
B)Volcanoes / natural underwater vents spew out CO2 and other type of C (this is normal though, this is part of the cycle and happens at a rate that is countered by another mechanism)
C) Mechanical weathering (wind, waves) of debris / rocks puts C back into play from rocks
D) And FINALLY, we have some specific organism that has figured out how to manipulate the Earth's buried C reservoir and bring it to the surface to be combusted to make things go fast and work

D) Is the key here.  Because D) happened in about 200 years.  In 200 years, humans take Carbon that took 200,000,000 years to be made, and we put it in a different part of the cycle (the atmosphere)


Earth has been in the relatively stable state that has been in for the past million or so years because this cycle has kind of balanced itself out.

There is a natural cycle that occurs here though:
Because of the Earth's elliptical orbit around the sun, the Earth goes through a 100,000 year cycle.
80,000 years of glacial
20,000 years of interglacial

During this full cycle, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere (which is measure in "parts per million") oscillates between:
190 (low) during glacial periods (cold)
and 300 (high) during interglacial periods (warm)

AND IT JUST SO HAPPENS
Humans came around, and we're sitting here having this discussion during a time of PEAK INTERGLACIAL-ness, which means:

The background (normal cycle) CO2 level was at its VERY HIGHEST - THE HIGHEST ITS BEEN SINCE THE DINOSAURS DIED:
At 300 parts per million

So, now, all the sudden humans start burning fossil fuels in the 1800's - and for 200 years or whatever, we burn C and put it into the atmosphere in the form of CO2.

Now, at this present date, the CO2 level is at 390 - if not 400. (its continually rising)

So, yes, there has always been a natural rise and fall of the CO2 level and temperature, but now we are simply building on top of what naturally occurs.

And so now you say "well, yeah, its the CO2 levels following the temperature throughout"

Well, that doesn't make sense, because that's not how it works.  CO2 level is a driving force behind Earth's climate. 

The more CO2, the less heat can escape.  Think of CO2 as a "one way door" for the sun's rays.

Because the sun's rays come AT the Earth as shortwave radiation - they are not blocked on the way in
But - when the rays hit the earth - go into the ground - go into you - and reflect off of you, the sun's rays are now LONGWAVE radiation, which is blocked by the CO2 in the atmosphere.

This is the greenhouse effect (blah blah, yeah boring)

But that's actually how it works.  It's all about the rapid removal of once-buried C - and putting it in the atmosphere at a rate quicker than the entire system is built to handle.

Think of the world as a spinning top.
 and as it's spinning, you lightly tap down on one of the sides
What happens?
It keeps spinning, but it now has a wobble.

We have put the Earth system into a wobble -
if we die out today, the Earth would still feel our effects for a while, while it goes through cycles of extreme drought and extreme precipitation, but ultimately
it would get back to what it was.

Now, if we keep living, and keep burning our fossil fuels, as I imagine we will, we're going to see an even more pronounced wobble.

Species are going to die off.  It took 1,500,000,000 years for life to even show up on this planet.  And now you're going to tell evolution to adapt in 200 years?

Most creatures on earth weren't made for this ride - they're not as resilient as we are.  Expect disbelief when you go to tell your children/grandchildren of the "great white bears that used to live at the North Pole".

The earth will be fine - independent of the organisms that inhabit it.  Time favors the elements that compose our floating rock.

We, on the other hand, are just one the organisms that feed off it's wellbeing.

[beardmcdoug]

Yep, that turned out way longer than I thought it would.

Please, feel free to ask any questions, I'm open for discussion.

I am all for the "banks are behind everything" / Alex Jones / Zeitgeist theory of reality, but this is something (the climate debate) that, as a chemical oceanographer, I cannot just let pass.

~ while I could maybe see the personal monetary / political motivations - the science is just too overwhelming.

 It's not a "blame game", scientists are not interested in getting to point the finger and say "HA! SEE IT IS HUMANS! WE SHOULD ALL FEEL GUILTY". 

It's about coming to a conclusion that pinpoints the cause/effect relationship between our actions as a fossil-fuel combusting, industrialized world economy, and the changes in our climate,
such as rising sea level, the melting of polar ice caps, ocean acidification, mass species extinction, extreme weather

Anyways, fire away!