Is Morris Slowing the Growth of McCoy?

[JDouble]

Feel Real Good wrote:

JDouble wrote:

Oh....and quit moving Kyle Moore inside on certain downs. That kid is garbage. With Miller, McCoy, and Price sitting there, it has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever in the history of football to move Kyle Moore inside in ANY situation. He can't even play DE. He sure as hell can't play DT.

Kyle Moore may in fact be garbage, but in a 3rd-and-long obvious passing situation, you'd rather have a base DE in there over Miller who doesn't bring much as a pass rusher. Crowder or Bennett would do for me.

Here's the thing though, we drafted a three tech pass rushing DT in the first and second rounds this year. Why on earth would you get better penetration and pressure up the middle with a DE? I can't imagine any DE, especially ours, being a better in the middle than Price and McCoy together.

What kills me is the package I've seen Miller at nose, Kyle Moore at three tech, and McCoy at DE, with Price on the sideline.....w t f is that?

[blind melon]

ufojoe wrote:

blind melon wrote:

McCoy answers the question himself on his radio show (on the main site now.)

When asked if he thought it slowed his development, he said no.   He did it all through college and is used to it.

Then that settles it.

You actually expect him to say, "Yes, Coach Morris is slowing my development?"

Putting it out there because it's relevant to the question.

[JDouble]

BTW Java, your not fooling anyone with your multiple accounts. You are transparent and pitiful. Get some friends and a life dude.

[Feel Real Good]

JDouble wrote:

Feel Real Good wrote:

JDouble wrote:

Oh....and quit moving Kyle Moore inside on certain downs. That kid is garbage. With Miller, McCoy, and Price sitting there, it has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever in the history of football to move Kyle Moore inside in ANY situation. He can't even play DE. He sure as hell can't play DT.

Kyle Moore may in fact be garbage, but in a 3rd-and-long obvious passing situation, you'd rather have a base DE in there over Miller who doesn't bring much as a pass rusher. Crowder or Bennett would do for me.

Here's the thing though, we drafted a three tech pass rushing DT in the first and second rounds this year. Why on earth would you get better penetration and pressure up the middle with a DE? I can't imagine any DE, especially ours, being a better in the middle than Price and McCoy together.

What kills me is the package I've seen Miller at nose, Kyle Moore at three tech, and McCoy at DE, with Price on the sideline.....w t f is that?

9 times out of 10 a 270 DE is faster than a 300 lb DT. If you were playing a 4-man line in a pass only situation, it wouldn't be horrible to have White, McCoy, Cowder, and Bennett all on the field. It's just like when we used to kick Spires or Wilkerson inside and put another DE on the field.

[BucsBay]

McCoy is not built physically to do the same things as Sapp and John Randall (although Brian Price is built to do some of those things). This isn't 1999 either. Offenses and defenses are completely different. When you have offensive coordinators on the field playing quaterback like Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady you can't afford to show them the same look over and over again. Who are the best defenses in the league, defenses who have had consitent success against those guys? The Steelers, the Jets, and previously Baltimore and the Pats. What do all of those defenses have in common? disguise. The ability to show you one thing and do something completely different. The Bucs seem to be going though some growing pains trying to become that type of defense, especially when they don't have the physicality in the middle and the rush off the edge that those teams do or did have, but I like where the Bucs are trying to go. Comparing McCoy to Sapp and Randall doesn't make sense. A guy who I'd like to see McCoy compare to is Richard Seymour. A solid football player who can win his matchup anywhere on the D-Line when he is on. Hopefully by the end of the year he can become that type of player.

[DiSalvo]

McCoy is already better as a rookie than Steve White ever was. WHo is this scrub to be critquing everyone else ??

If it wasn't for Greg Spires taking over for Steve White , we might never have won a superbowl....

[casinoace]

DiSalvo wrote:

McCoy is already better as a rookie than Steve White ever was. WHo is this scrub to be critquing everyone else ??

If it wasn't for Greg Spires taking over for Steve White , we might never have won a superbowl....

Brad Culpepper has similar thoughts as Steve.

But, to be honest. I dont think they really know what theyre talking about. They still think this is the same system they played in. They would be better off covering the Bears defense.

I agree The Crane was a big reason why we won the super bowl. People comparing Kyle Moore to him, dont realize how good he was.

[escobar]

This is what I was talking about in the game thread last week. He isn't looking like the third overall pick out there, I couldn't care less if it's early..there has to be a reason for it. As I pointed out, with the amount of time the staff spent on the draft this year, completely ignoring FA in the process, they NEED to get this right. There are no excuses this season. After three games McCoy has only a few tackles and no sacks, and at times our run defense has looked awful. In that thread I said he needed to step his game up, but apparently it's not entirely his fault.

It's been said countless times on here to the Gruden haters, you guys got what you asked for. A coach/gm with virtually no experience who just might run this team completely into the ground. But hey, Gruden's gone so who cares, right?

[Biggs3535]

casinoace wrote:

But, to be honest. I dont think they really know what theyre talking about. They still think this is the same system they played in. They would be better off covering the Bears defense.

That's a good point.  Good or bad, these DT's are doing things Monte's DT's never did.

[BucBalla85]

I think since McCoy is our best pass rusher Morris is trying to put him in position to make plays. Price and Stylz are our other good pass rushers. However they arent what we need. The team needs a DE that is a pass rushing specialists. If we have that DE we need I think you will see McCoy stay in his position more than get moved around. I think all this is, is Morris trying to get a better pass rush because he doesnt have the DEs right now to do it. Our defense is far more effective when we dont have to send blitzes and just rush the dline. Morris is trying to figure out how to do that with what hes got.

[escobar]

BucBalla85 wrote:

I think since McCoy is our best pass rusher Morris is trying to put him in position to make plays. Price and Stylz are our other good pass rushers. However they arent what we need. The team needs a DE that is a pass rushing specialists. If we have that DE we need I think you will see McCoy stay in his position more than get moved around. I think all this is, is Morris trying to get a better pass rush because he doesnt have the DEs right now to do it. Our defense is far more effective when we dont have to send blitzes and just rush the dline. Morris is trying to figure out how to do that with what hes got.

A good DT is supposed to make average ends better, that's the whole reason it's considered the key position of our defense. The fact of the matter is GM (for multiple reasons perhaps) isn't getting it done. If/when he becomes the dominant DT we drafted him to be, the play of our DE's is going to improve dramatically. If we need good/great DE's in order for Gerald to be a legit NFL tackle then we made a mistake in drafting him.

[Feel Real Good]

escobar wrote:

BucBalla85 wrote:

I think since McCoy is our best pass rusher Morris is trying to put him in position to make plays. Price and Stylz are our other good pass rushers. However they arent what we need. The team needs a DE that is a pass rushing specialists. If we have that DE we need I think you will see McCoy stay in his position more than get moved around. I think all this is, is Morris trying to get a better pass rush because he doesnt have the DEs right now to do it. Our defense is far more effective when we dont have to send blitzes and just rush the dline. Morris is trying to figure out how to do that with what hes got.

A good DT is supposed to make average ends better, that's the whole reason it's considered the key position of our defense. The fact of the matter is GM (for multiple reasons perhaps) isn't getting it done. If/when he becomes the dominant DT we drafted him to be, the play of our DE's is going to improve dramatically. If we need good/great DE's in order for Gerald to be a legit NFL tackle then we made a mistake in drafting him.

Good DT's get theirs no matter who is next to them and good DE's get theirs no matter who is next to them. When Sapp had 12.5 sacks in 1999 (the second best he would do in his entire career), the DE playing next to him, Steve White, got 2 sacks. When Kevin Williams got 11.5 sacks in 2004 (the best he would do his entire career), the DE playing next to him, Kenechi Udeze, got 5 sacks.

[Biggs3535]

escobar wrote:

BucBalla85 wrote:

I think since McCoy is our best pass rusher Morris is trying to put him in position to make plays. Price and Stylz are our other good pass rushers. However they arent what we need. The team needs a DE that is a pass rushing specialists. If we have that DE we need I think you will see McCoy stay in his position more than get moved around. I think all this is, is Morris trying to get a better pass rush because he doesnt have the DEs right now to do it. Our defense is far more effective when we dont have to send blitzes and just rush the dline. Morris is trying to figure out how to do that with what hes got.

A good DT is supposed to make average ends better, that's the whole reason it's considered the key position of our defense. The fact of the matter is GM (for multiple reasons perhaps) isn't getting it done. If/when he becomes the dominant DT we drafted him to be, the play of our DE's is going to improve dramatically. If we need good/great DE's in order for Gerald to be a legit NFL tackle then we made a mistake in drafting him.

We're 3 games into the season.  Less than 20 DT's have a sack in the NFL, and only one of those guys is a rookie.  I'm not sure what you've expected from McCoy in his first three NFL games, but it's apparently a bit too much.  Defensive Tackles have a bigger learning curve than most any other position on defense.  4-5 sacks was my expectation for McCoy, and there is still plenty of time to hit that.

Were you this tough on Gaines Adams in his first 3 career starts?  Adams has the same stat line as McCoy, while playing DE.

[escobar]

Biggs3535 wrote:

escobar wrote:

BucBalla85 wrote:

I think since McCoy is our best pass rusher Morris is trying to put him in position to make plays. Price and Stylz are our other good pass rushers. However they arent what we need. The team needs a DE that is a pass rushing specialists. If we have that DE we need I think you will see McCoy stay in his position more than get moved around. I think all this is, is Morris trying to get a better pass rush because he doesnt have the DEs right now to do it. Our defense is far more effective when we dont have to send blitzes and just rush the dline. Morris is trying to figure out how to do that with what hes got.

A good DT is supposed to make average ends better, that's the whole reason it's considered the key position of our defense. The fact of the matter is GM (for multiple reasons perhaps) isn't getting it done. If/when he becomes the dominant DT we drafted him to be, the play of our DE's is going to improve dramatically. If we need good/great DE's in order for Gerald to be a legit NFL tackle then we made a mistake in drafting him.

We're 3 games into the season.  Less than 20 DT's have a sack in the NFL, and only one of those guys is a rookie.  I'm not sure what you've expected from McCoy in his first three NFL games, but it's apparently a bit too much.  Defensive Tackles have a bigger learning curve than most any other position on defense.  4-5 sacks was my expectation for McCoy, and there is still plenty of time to hit that.

Were you this tough on Gaines Adams in his first 3 career starts?  Adams has the same stat line as McCoy, while playing DE.

I'm more concerned with his tackles and at times the poor run D. As I said I realize it has been only three games, I guess I just expected more out of him and Price. After reading what Steve White had to say it really just goes back to the real problem, inexperienced people calling the shots.

[JDouble]

Actually Biggs, 3 rookie DTs have sacks. Suh, Alualu, and Geno Adkins. 9 other rookies have sacks, but they are LBs and DEs.

Just sayin'