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JDouble

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: October 13, 2010, 11:40:21 AM

We have been playing the 3-3-5 alot this season, especially the last two games. This is why we have alot of INTs, but aren't getting pressure or stopping the run. Alot of fans, including myself, aren't real happy about that.

However, after rewatching the Bengals game I realized that we are running the 3-3-5 out of need more than anything else. With rookie Cody Grimm starting and Sean Jones/Sabby starting opposite him, Rah realizes we have to have that 5th DB in the secondary or we'll get picked apart and burnt all day long.

The problem is, with our young and inexperienced DTs and our invisible undersized LBs, we can't get a pass rush or stop the run. This is actually a fixable problem though, and it leads me to think the 3-3-5 might end up being as big for us in the future as the cover two has been in the past. Here is why.

1. McCoy, Price, and Miller are all young and learning. We aren't doing so well with only three defensive linemen right now, but with experience these guys will improve, which will make the 3-3-5 more effective.

2. Currently our starting LBs are weak and not helping us. Geno is very undersized and gets over powered often. RBs blow thru his arm tackles with ease. Rudd is weak and slow. Black is probably our best all around LB, but he is our main blitzer when we are in the 3-3-5 and he just isn't getting it done as a pass rusher. Next year though, I could see Black sliding over to MLB to replace Ruud, and a rookie like Akeem Ayers, Robert Quinn, or Jeremy Beal becoming that DE/OLB hybrid pass rusher. This could make thing MUCH more effective.

3. Cody Grimm has been playing up close to the line like a SS/LB when in the 3-3-5. He does this very well, probably becuase this is exactly what he did in college. He excels at this SS/LB position that allows him to roam close to the line. I'm sure it sounds insane to think we would build our defense around an undersized 7th round LB, but I think we could. Grimm gives us so much versatility because he hits hard enough and tackles well enough to be the LB, but he also has the ability to drop back and play coverage anywhere on the field as safety. QBs don't know what to expect. If we have DE/OLB hybrids on both ends, we will have the ability to line up 4-2-5 and have one of the ends drop back in coverage as OLB or have them both rush and Grimm act as the 3rd LB.

It really gives us some versaitlity to disguise what we are doing. With a year of experience for our young guys, and a newly drfated OLB/DE pass rushing stud, I really think this could be our main defense next year.


Feel Real Good

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#1 : October 13, 2010, 11:50:18 AM

I don't think the 3-3-5 will ever be a viable base defense in the NFL because you're too vulnerable to the run.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#2 : October 13, 2010, 12:02:25 PM

I think Raheem is attempting to use the 3-3-5 or the 4-3, based on opponent.  The first three games, against run heavy teams... the 4-3 was used as the base defense.  Cinn and NO are pass-first teams, forcing an adjustment to the 3-3-5.

I think it shows Raheem as being realistic about his defense's weaknesses and "playing the odds" against that week's opponent's strength.  NO is last in rushing this year.... so I'd surely expect the 3-3-5 to be the base defense this week, allowing some huge gains on the ground.  I'm also believing that Brees is vunerable and this might lead to a big day for the Bucs DBs.

JDouble

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#3 : October 13, 2010, 12:03:28 PM

Feel Real Good wrote:
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I don't think the 3-3-5 will ever be a viable base defense in the NFL because you're too vulnerable to the run.




Not really. We are right now now, but it depends on your personel. Sabby and Jones suck, but imagine for a moment that we have a real SS. A 220lbs hard hitting guy like John Lynch. Now your other safety in Grimm, basicly two strong safeties. Both can play closer to the line and play against the run. Either one can creep up and play like a LB or drop back in coverage.

This only works becaue you have a 3rd CB in the secondary so your coverage is still tight.

I think the key is having both DEs being hybrid guys that can stop the run and pass the QB with thier hands in the dirt as true 4-3 DEs, but also stand up and play as OLBs.

I don't think we have the guys to be great at it right now, but I bet we see it alot more this year, and if we draft/sign the right guys in FA and the draft next year, I can see it being very effective.


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#4 : October 13, 2010, 12:20:20 PM

The 3-3-5 might be most effective with a team that runs a 3-4 base defense. The D-lineman in those defenses are typically bigger and hold up better in the run game. The OLB's are usually bigger guys as well.

McCoy is a big man, but he's kinda lanky for a tackle at 6' 4" 295. Price just beaks the 300lb mark and Miller would be the heavyweight listed at 310. You can't expect these young guys to dominate physically.

Morris is designing this defense to be versatile though and so far I like that. It's become less predictable, but it will take some time develop.

3rd String Kicker

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#5 : October 13, 2010, 12:42:21 PM

I like that fact that nothing is concrete.

I have seen 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5, 4-4, etc...

The fact that our defense doesn't have a base formation and coverage has caused major headaches in the film room of our opponents.

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#6 : October 13, 2010, 12:50:31 PM

This is was what the Ocho tweet was about lol.

Freeman\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"I love winning a lot more than Im scared of losing\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"

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#7 : October 13, 2010, 01:45:22 PM

The 3-3-5 is the only way Raheem can get the best 11 players on the field at the same time. Black is as good a pass rusher as any DE we have and he can cover the entire field so he is valuable there. 3-3-5 doesnt work against teams that like to run the ball, but its tough to play against for teams like the Saints who are down 2 backs and are going to be more inclined to pass.

These are my concerns about Schiano. He thinks hes the **CENSORED**, when really he is someone who couldn\'t win the Big East once in 10 years.

I said it before and I\'ll say it again, Josh Freeman is the only thing that can save this franchise from this dude. If he doesn\'t adjust his style AND Freeman cant win enough, we\'re going to be wondering who the next coach is going to be in 2 years.

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#8 : October 13, 2010, 01:49:10 PM

Didn't realize there was an injury situation at the tailback position for the Saints. Brees is enough to worry about though.

Detrimental

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#9 : October 13, 2010, 03:19:12 PM

The Saints can't run the ball this year so this package will be in usage. Its tough as hell to get open when their are five defensive backs in coverage as you pointed out. If we get a pass rusher hybrid, I don't care who it is, just as long he gets after it. This defense will be much better overall. I was vouching for Eric Norwood because he is a tweener but I think we could have used his ability here. I like the idea of moving Black to MLB but I'm not sure if he's ready for that responsibilty. MLB makes the calls, has to be able to play 3 different gap containments as opposed to 1 for OLB's. Its a tough duty but who knows, Quarles made the transition.

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#10 : October 13, 2010, 03:25:20 PM

More than likely when the Glazer boys hire Bill Cowher.


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#11 : October 13, 2010, 03:44:18 PM

Maybe not as a base formation. But we will certainly be using it a lot imo. I really like the way our D is schemed. Just need to get some players who can get pressure and tackle better


Pick6

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#12 : October 13, 2010, 05:05:44 PM

we need a stouter MLB than Ruud to make the 3-3-5 capable of stopping the run on a consistent basis

NotDeadYet

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#13 : October 13, 2010, 05:25:16 PM

3rd string, you are absolutely right in that NOT having a "base" defense creates confusion on the opponent trying to dissect it. Unpredictability is the best defense of all. See **CENSORED** Lebeau. We also sometimes line up with 4 D'linemen, but drop one into zone coverage. This is nothing new; Bill Arnsparger was the DC for Don Shula with the Dolphins back in the '70's and did this.

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#14 : October 13, 2010, 05:43:01 PM

Pick6 wrote:
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we need a stouter MLB than Ruud to make the 3-3-5 capable of stopping the run on a consistent basis


That's what Cody is for

Freeman\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"I love winning a lot more than Im scared of losing\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"
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