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bucjoe

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#30 : October 29, 2010, 03:22:49 PM

Perhaps Ruud HAS just turned me off with his soft play.  However, Hightower is REPORTEDLY around 265 lbs and moves pretty well.  I would LOVE to have him manning MLBer for us!!

.....just my opinion

JDouble

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#31 : October 29, 2010, 04:20:27 PM

GameTime wrote:
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bucjoe wrote:
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In the draft, give me a PASS RUSHING DE and a MLBer like Hightower (I haven't seen Irving, but if he isn't 250 lbs...not interested) and I believe the Buc defense will be ready to go in 2011!!


thats music to my ears.  those are really the only 2 positions that i see as necessary to upgrade.


Nate Irving was reported as 240lbs in 2008, then he missed 2009 because of a bad car crash, and now he is back and listed as 235lbs. I want a big tough MLB too, but I think as long as your 235lbs, you can get the job done. It's guys like Geno that are hovering around 220-225lbs that make me wonder if they have enough to ever be a dependable LB.

Also, Ruud is listed as 241lbs, but he's not. He is noticable smaller than he was in 2007 ans 2008. He looks more like 225lbs or so. Derrick Brooks was around 235-240lbs, and Ruud doesn't look anything like Brooks. He almost looks scrawny at times this year.

Anyways, this is 235lbs Nate Irving.....




The RB is Dawyne Harris who is 6ft 210lbs. So again, I think it's more in the players mind frame than his size. I'll take a MLB any where from 230-260lbs as long as he plays hard.

Draft Aaron Donald



bucjoe

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#32 : October 29, 2010, 04:37:34 PM

WOW!!  Uhhh....maybe Irving WOULD be "big enough"!!

Now THAT'S what I call aggressive!!

I hope to find a NC State game on tv so I can watch Irving in a full game.

Might just change my mind.

.....just my opinion

burger40

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#33 : October 29, 2010, 04:39:46 PM

If we can't find a RT with Barker or Lee I wouldn't mind Gabe Carimi the OT from Wisconsin. He plays RT in college but has established himself as a true road grader who sometimes struggles vs elite DEs (Claiborne last Saturday) in pass pro

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bucjoe

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#34 : October 29, 2010, 04:45:46 PM

I'll  be watching the Wisconsin game with Carimi as a RT in mind.  I will also continue to watch Moffitt.

I say again, what a shame Dotson is hurt.  He is missing a real "dress rehearsal" for next year.

.....just my opinion

GameTime

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#35 : October 29, 2010, 04:54:11 PM

burger40 wrote:
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If we can't find a RT with Barker or Lee I wouldn't mind Gabe Carimi the OT from Wisconsin. He plays RT in college but has established himself as a true road grader who sometimes struggles vs elite DEs (Claiborne last Saturday) in pass pro


but how high would you be willing to draft RT?  with dotson, lee, and barker as roster depth/future considerables, id rather fill other needs.

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JDouble

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#36 : October 29, 2010, 06:58:12 PM

burger40 wrote:
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If we can't find a RT with Barker or Lee I wouldn't mind Gabe Carimi the OT from Wisconsin. He plays RT in college but has established himself as a true road grader who sometimes struggles vs elite DEs (Claiborne last Saturday) in pass pro


Alot can change between now and draft day, but currently Moffit is projected as a 4th-5th round pick, and Carimi is projected as a 3rd. I'd love to grab both with our 3rd and 4th. That would leave our 1st and 2nd for DE/LB and then 5th and 6th for safety/running back. Plus they'd already have good chemistry from playing on the same line in college.

They are both about 320lbs too, which would be nice. I hate that we always seem to draft OL that are barely 300lbs. Whenever we play teams like the Steelers, with thier 340lbs linemen, it makes me sad. Where's the beef?

Draft Aaron Donald



John Galt?

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#37 : October 29, 2010, 07:17:44 PM

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Good call! I actually like Donte Hightower and Von Miller...some how I created Donte Miller.  :huh: I'll edit that.

As far as Ingram, I like him but I think he is not Barry Sanders. I also think he'll be a first round pick, and I'm just not a fan of taking RBs in the first round in general. If you go back and look at all the great RBs through out the last 30 years, you'll see most of them were not first round picks. To me RB is one position were there are always gems in the later rounds.

With Black, I like the kid. He is a straight up baller. I just feel that our defense is already too undersized, which causes us to get pushed around and ran over by bigger more physical teams. The last thing I want is a 5'9" 188lbs safety. I think black will have a career similiar to Bob Sanders. Great when healhty, but rarely healthy....or he'll be a CB.



I see Black as a pure cover 2 type Free Safety. Put him deep and let him play center field. We have Grimm, who I think is more of a Strong Safety that you bring up in the box as a run stuffer when needed.

Ingram is no Barry Sanders, but who is? i agree he's not worth a first considering our desperate need for a DE but ya never know, he could do something stupid and drop ala Blount.


Skull and Bones

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#38 : October 29, 2010, 07:38:41 PM

I'm just not a fan of taking RBs in the first round in general. If you go back and look at all the great RBs through out the last 30 years, you'll see most of them were not first round picks. To me RB is one position were there are always gems in the later rounds.

while I agree with you RBs can be found in the mid rounds I don't believe for one second your statement about the best RB over the last 30 mostly not being 1st rounder.

top 30 rushers in NFL history and only a handful were not 1st rounders:

1. Emmitt Smith+  18,355  1990-2004  2TM
2. Walter Payton+  16,726  1975-1987  chi
3. Barry Sanders+  15,269  1989-1998  det
4. Curtis Martin  14,101  1995-2005  2TM
5. Jerome Bettis  13,662  1993-2005  2TM
6. Eric **CENSORED**erson+  13,259  1983-1993  4TM
7. LaDainian Tomlinson (30) 12,980  2001-2010  2TM
8. Tony Dorsett+  12,739  1977-1988  2TM
9. Jim Brown+  12,312  1957-1965  cle
10. Marshall Faulk  12,279  1994-2005  2TM
11. Edgerrin James  12,246  1999-2009  3TM
12. Marcus Allen+  12,243  1982-1997  2TM
13. Franco Harris+  12,120  1972-1984  2TM
14. Thurman Thomas+  12,074  1988-2000  2TM
15. Fred Taylor (33) 11,638  1998-2010  2TM
16. John Riggins+  11,352  1971-1985  2TM
17. Corey Dillon  11,241  1997-2006  2TM
18. O.J. Simpson+  11,236  1969-1979  2TM
19. Warrick Dunn  10,967  1997-2008  2TM
20. Ricky Watters  10,643  1992-2001  3TM
21. Jamal Lewis  10,607  2000-2009  2TM
22. Tiki Barber  10,449  1997-2006  nyg
23. Eddie George  10,441  1996-2004  2TM
24. Ottis Anderson  10,273  1979-1992  2TM
25. Clinton Portis (28) 9,891  2002-2010  2TM
26. Joe Perry+  9,723  1948-1963  2TM
27. Thomas Jones (31) 9,678  2000-2010  5TM
28. Shaun Alexander  9,453  2000-2008  2TM
29. Earl Campbell+  9,407  1978-1985  2TM
30. Ahman Green

only one guy(curtis martin/3rd round) in the top 10 wasn't.  most were top 5 picks.
between 11-20 there were 3 and they were high 2nd rounders
 between 21-30 only 3 weren't-they were 2nd rounders.
so 23 out of the top 30 RBs were 1st rounder.  The lowest was a 3rd rounder.


John Galt?

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#39 : October 29, 2010, 07:43:48 PM

Feel Real Good wrote:
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bucjoe wrote:
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I don't think Dom would hesitate a second to take two DEs in the first two rounds...IF we didn't need a thumper at MLBer so bad.  I have tried to give Ruud the benefit of the doubt but can no longer do so.  I am also NOT INTERESTED in any 235 lb MLBers to replace him, REGARDLESS of their credentials!!  I want to see a 250 lb + guy at that spot.  IMO, it's PAST time that we got bigger on defense.  A guy like Hightower in the middle of our defense would be a GREAT start!!

How many 250 lb 4-3 MLB's are even in the league? They're all around 240; they just simply use it more effectively than Ruud.


No longer a 4-3 LB but Ray Lewis is 251.
Urlacher is 258
James Laurinaitis is 247, pretty close.
DeMeco Ryans is 250
McClain is 255
 
But then you have Beason, Willis, Curtis Lofton, and others around 240 and playing the pants off of Ruud.


Skull and Bones

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#40 : October 29, 2010, 07:44:43 PM

GameTime wrote:
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burger40 wrote:
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If we can't find a RT with Barker or Lee I wouldn't mind Gabe Carimi the OT from Wisconsin. He plays RT in college but has established himself as a true road grader who sometimes struggles vs elite DEs (Claiborne last Saturday) in pass pro


but how high would you be willing to draft RT?  with dotson, lee, and barker as roster depth/future considerables, id rather fill other needs.

if you want a starting quality RT you need to take one by the 3rd.  sure we have other needs but then we will probably be sitting here on our computers next year **CENSORED**in bout our run game or lack thereof or even worse how Freeman got injured.  those 3 name you listed don't give me confidence.


burger40

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#41 : October 29, 2010, 10:07:49 PM

Skull and Bones wrote:
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GameTime wrote:
Quote
burger40 wrote:
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If we can't find a RT with Barker or Lee I wouldn't mind Gabe Carimi the OT from Wisconsin. He plays RT in college but has established himself as a true road grader who sometimes struggles vs elite DEs (Claiborne last Saturday) in pass pro


but how high would you be willing to draft RT?  with dotson, lee, and barker as roster depth/future considerables, id rather fill other needs.

if you want a starting quality RT you need to take one by the 3rd.  sure we have other needs but then we will probably be sitting here on our computers next year **CENSORED**in bout our run game or lack thereof or even worse how Freeman got injured.  those 3 name you listed don't give me confidence.

Unless Carimi really sucks at the combine or something else bad happens to him he'll be a 2nd round pick at worst and even then he may be out of reach as we will pry be right in the mid teens in the draft. still a lot has yet to happen and many guys will move up and down.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville

JDouble

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#42 : October 30, 2010, 10:21:12 AM

Skull and Bones wrote:
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I'm just not a fan of taking RBs in the first round in general. If you go back and look at all the great RBs through out the last 30 years, you'll see most of them were not first round picks. To me RB is one position were there are always gems in the later rounds.

while I agree with you RBs can be found in the mid rounds I don't believe for one second your statement about the best RB over the last 30 mostly not being 1st rounder.

top 30 rushers in NFL history and only a handful were not 1st rounders:

1. Emmitt Smith+  18,355  1990-2004  2TM
2. Walter Payton+  16,726  1975-1987  chi
3. Barry Sanders+  15,269  1989-1998  det
4. Curtis Martin  14,101  1995-2005  2TM
5. Jerome Bettis  13,662  1993-2005  2TM
6. Eric **CENSORED**erson+  13,259  1983-1993  4TM
7. LaDainian Tomlinson (30) 12,980  2001-2010  2TM
8. Tony Dorsett+  12,739  1977-1988  2TM
9. Jim Brown+  12,312  1957-1965  cle
10. Marshall Faulk  12,279  1994-2005  2TM
11. Edgerrin James  12,246  1999-2009  3TM
12. Marcus Allen+  12,243  1982-1997  2TM
13. Franco Harris+  12,120  1972-1984  2TM
14. Thurman Thomas+  12,074  1988-2000  2TM
15. Fred Taylor (33) 11,638  1998-2010  2TM
16. John Riggins+  11,352  1971-1985  2TM
17. Corey Dillon  11,241  1997-2006  2TM
18. O.J. Simpson+  11,236  1969-1979  2TM
19. Warrick Dunn  10,967  1997-2008  2TM
20. Ricky Watters  10,643  1992-2001  3TM
21. Jamal Lewis  10,607  2000-2009  2TM
22. Tiki Barber  10,449  1997-2006  nyg
23. Eddie George  10,441  1996-2004  2TM
24. Ottis Anderson  10,273  1979-1992  2TM
25. Clinton Portis (28) 9,891  2002-2010  2TM
26. Joe Perry+  9,723  1948-1963  2TM
27. Thomas Jones (31) 9,678  2000-2010  5TM
28. Shaun Alexander  9,453  2000-2008  2TM
29. Earl Campbell+  9,407  1978-1985  2TM
30. Ahman Green

only one guy(curtis martin/3rd round) in the top 10 wasn't.  most were top 5 picks.
between 11-20 there were 3 and they were high 2nd rounders
 between 21-30 only 3 weren't-they were 2nd rounders.
so 23 out of the top 30 RBs were 1st rounder.  The lowest was a 3rd rounder.


While I appreciate the effort and the list, if you don't have the spot they were drafted next to the naem, it is a bit irrelivent to the subject.  :P

I shouldn't have said 30 years. I realize that most of the great running backs from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, were in fact first round picks. In the mid 90's though, Mike Shannahan showed everyone that you didn't need a first round RB. First with Terrel Davis, then Clinton Portis, then Mike Anderson, Tatem Bell, and then just anyone really.

After that it has become alot more common for later round backs to get a real shot. Ahmad Green (3rd), Preist Holmes (undrafted), Darren Sproles (4th), Ray Rice (2nd), Maurice Jones Drew (2nd), Brian Westbrook (3rd), Corey Dillon (3rd), Curtis MArtin (3rd), Clinton Portis (2nd), Mike Anderson (6th), Frank Gore (3rd), Marion Barber (4th)

I could go on, but you get the picture. I should of said last 15 years, not 30, but in modern day NFL you can find a great RB in later rounds. It has been proven again and again. If you have a Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson type guy that just screams HoFer, then sure, take him in the 1st, but even then you better have a team that is ready to make it to the superbowl, because RBs are in thier prime for an average of 3 years. Yet another reason why I don't like spending a 1st round pick on them.

Draft Aaron Donald



X Factor

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#43 : October 30, 2010, 04:08:40 PM

Not a Hightower fan at all, atleast not in the 1st round. He is going to slip most likely, he is having a sub par year to say the least and tore his ACL in 2009...  I have heard a lot of people say Derrick Brooks made Ruud look good.
I think you can say the same about Hightower, no Rolando McClain and he looks below average...

This is who I want  us to draft to replace Ruud-


Mike Williams by Xfactor32, on Flickr

dbucfan

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#44 : October 30, 2010, 04:59:57 PM

JDouble wrote:
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Skull and Bones wrote:
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I'm just not a fan of taking RBs in the first round in general. If you go back and look at all the great RBs through out the last 30 years, you'll see most of them were not first round picks. To me RB is one position were there are always gems in the later rounds.

while I agree with you RBs can be found in the mid rounds I don't believe for one second your statement about the best RB over the last 30 mostly not being 1st rounder.

top 30 rushers in NFL history and only a handful were not 1st rounders:

1. Emmitt Smith+  18,355  1990-2004  2TM
2. Walter Payton+  16,726  1975-1987  chi
3. Barry Sanders+  15,269  1989-1998  det
4. Curtis Martin  14,101  1995-2005  2TM
5. Jerome Bettis  13,662  1993-2005  2TM
6. Eric **CENSORED**erson+  13,259  1983-1993  4TM
7. LaDainian Tomlinson (30) 12,980  2001-2010  2TM
8. Tony Dorsett+  12,739  1977-1988  2TM
9. Jim Brown+  12,312  1957-1965  cle
10. Marshall Faulk  12,279  1994-2005  2TM
11. Edgerrin James  12,246  1999-2009  3TM
12. Marcus Allen+  12,243  1982-1997  2TM
13. Franco Harris+  12,120  1972-1984  2TM
14. Thurman Thomas+  12,074  1988-2000  2TM
15. Fred Taylor (33) 11,638  1998-2010  2TM
16. John Riggins+  11,352  1971-1985  2TM
17. Corey Dillon  11,241  1997-2006  2TM
18. O.J. Simpson+  11,236  1969-1979  2TM
19. Warrick Dunn  10,967  1997-2008  2TM
20. Ricky Watters  10,643  1992-2001  3TM
21. Jamal Lewis  10,607  2000-2009  2TM
22. Tiki Barber  10,449  1997-2006  nyg
23. Eddie George  10,441  1996-2004  2TM
24. Ottis Anderson  10,273  1979-1992  2TM
25. Clinton Portis (28) 9,891  2002-2010  2TM
26. Joe Perry+  9,723  1948-1963  2TM
27. Thomas Jones (31) 9,678  2000-2010  5TM
28. Shaun Alexander  9,453  2000-2008  2TM
29. Earl Campbell+  9,407  1978-1985  2TM
30. Ahman Green

only one guy(curtis martin/3rd round) in the top 10 wasn't.  most were top 5 picks.
between 11-20 there were 3 and they were high 2nd rounders
 between 21-30 only 3 weren't-they were 2nd rounders.
so 23 out of the top 30 RBs were 1st rounder.  The lowest was a 3rd rounder.


While I appreciate the effort and the list, if you don't have the spot they were drafted next to the naem, it is a bit irrelivent to the subject.  :P

I shouldn't have said 30 years. I realize that most of the great running backs from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, were in fact first round picks. In the mid 90's though, Mike Shannahan showed everyone that you didn't need a first round RB. First with Terrel Davis, then Clinton Portis, then Mike Anderson, Tatem Bell, and then just anyone really.

After that it has become alot more common for later round backs to get a real shot. Ahmad Green (3rd), Preist Holmes (undrafted), Darren Sproles (4th), Ray Rice (2nd), Maurice Jones Drew (2nd), Brian Westbrook (3rd), Corey Dillon (3rd), Curtis MArtin (3rd), Clinton Portis (2nd), Mike Anderson (6th), Frank Gore (3rd), Marion Barber (4th)

I could go on, but you get the picture. I should of said last 15 years, not 30, but in modern day NFL you can find a great RB in later rounds. It has been proven again and again. If you have a Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson type guy that just screams HoFer, then sure, take him in the 1st, but even then you better have a team that is ready to make it to the superbowl, because RBs are in thier prime for an average of 3 years. Yet another reason why I don't like spending a 1st round pick on them.


S & B pretty much proved his point with the list.  There is opportunity to get rbs later as well - wonder how many one has to sort through to be satisfied with the later round picks.  Or do you guys think most teams get it right on most running back picks?

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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