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PassTheBlount

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#15 : November 11, 2010, 11:51:25 PM

why all the talk about Suh on this board??

he plays for the lions
mccoy plays for the bucs

its not like the bucs passed up on him either, we stil got a talented young DT that has plenty potential
 
anyone expecting McCoy to come in and be Sapp right away dosent really know football to well, the man is a rookie give him time ppl

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#16 : November 12, 2010, 01:54:54 AM

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Any one of those guys individual probably wouldn't do very well, true.

But I think you have to look at them as a unit.

Well then, I suppose McCoy is a part of a rag-tag bunch of non-doers that are on track to set the record for least amount of sacks ever in the NFL.  

We watch the games gentlemen, and what we see we cannot deny.  You can break the game down in slow mo all you want, but the secondary is good in spite of the line, IMO.  they are sticking and hovering for much longer than they should be.  Rah can coach (DB's very well, FWIW).  

This McCoy character is on our D-line, but because Suh is smashing all expectations, we suddenly have to be defensive about Gerald.

Look, Gerald might be good, but he might just be a middle of the road DT, to be honest.  All this waiting for him to arrive talk is hillarious, because when you have to rely on expert analysis of what good DT play is, you are reaching, IMO.  Suh bashing aside, McCoy deserves a lot more bashing, IMO.  these pressures he is generating are based on a "pressure" system.  He has to be withing a few yards of the QB...well...Okay then.  Fine.  But McCoy is not a good run defender, he is part of one of the worst unit's in the NFL.  And he was supposed to help with his strong hands and strong legs.  Should have resigned HOvan, Like I said a few times.  Hovan was a better run defender FWIW.  He is a part of a line that is on pace for record futility, and we all have Mike Williams, Spurlock, and Freeman to thank for the record.  

McCoy...c'mon man.  Just give us some numbers, be a part of something good.  

From what I have witnessed, and from what I see people reaching for, they desperately want you to be Sapp.  Even Sapp thinks you WERE the bomb, until he watched Suh in the NFL, and then he might have changed directions...

How many of you here would take McCoy over Suh at this point?

If you say otherwise, you are just a bunch of crack heads.

Edit:  Where are all you crack heads who dissed Gaines Adams for his production and being part of a better run defending team?  Gaines had a lot of pressures as well...and so many were bashing him from game 4 and on...

gaines was a better DE than McCoy is a DT at this point.  How is that for reality?  Hopefully, McCoy can make some shakes.  Hopefully, he stops calling everyone under the sun "beasts".  Hell, I read one of his tweets from a few days agao, and he called MIke Jordan a beast...well...that much is true.  Hopefully, he worries more about his own "beastiality" (ha ha ha) than what others are doing.  He is getting paid to play.  NUMBERS DO MEAN SOMETHING.  If the BUcs cannot rely on him for better defensive presence, well...expect people to tune him out quickly.  And stop with this Sapp nonsense.


jerseybucsfan

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#17 : November 12, 2010, 08:39:31 AM

Sad, but true. McCoy is who some of us thought he was. He didn't put up big numbers in college and yet some of you reached for Suh's lower numbers as a junior and said ''McCoy was better as a junior so they're about the same.'' Well, they're not. You're making a lot of EXCUSES for McCoy and he's not getting it done. I'm sure his support system isn't the best, but let's not make out Avril and Sammie Lee Hill to be future Hall of Famers. Suh is putting up numbers like his senior year and will probably ALWAYS produce. He's not perfect and you can nitpick all the flaws you want. Get McCoy some help and his numbers should go up somewhat. But he had 34 total tackles as a junior. He's got 16 in 8 games here, more or less the same pace. His numbers didn't get any better from his sophomore to junior years, suggesting a guy who has already peaked. If that's so, we have ourselves a bust.

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dbucfan

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#18 : November 12, 2010, 04:13:17 PM

Biggs3535 wrote:
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BucsPirate1 wrote:
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Interesting that Suh has 22 pressures and McCoy has 21. I think a lot of getting a sack has to do with having more than 1 guy close to the QB, where he can't easily escape.


That goes back to Sunny's post from a few weeks ago where he showed all of Suh's sacks, and how most of them came from the QB being funneled towards him.

Is that going to be a new statistical component for evaluation - sacks being funneled to or from?  LOL - just struck me as odd and funny

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Biggs3535

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#19 : November 12, 2010, 04:28:15 PM

dbucfan wrote:
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Biggs3535 wrote:
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BucsPirate1 wrote:
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Interesting that Suh has 22 pressures and McCoy has 21. I think a lot of getting a sack has to do with having more than 1 guy close to the QB, where he can't easily escape.


That goes back to Sunny's post from a few weeks ago where he showed all of Suh's sacks, and how most of them came from the QB being funneled towards him.

Is that going to be a new statistical component for evaluation - sacks being funneled to or from?  LOL - just struck me as odd and funny


Not at all.

I don't think anyone (or at least not me) is trying to diminish anything Suh has done as a rookie DT.  He's been extremely good at getting after the QB.  But as Sunny showed, Suh isn't mauling offensive lineman to get those sacks, and that appears to be a misconception regarding those sacks.  He's definitely getting some help, but he gets full credit for being in position to make a play and finishing that play on the QB.

However, his run D is another matter altogether.  Of course, that could be by design with Corey Williams being an excellent run defender beside him.  Schartz could just be telling the Kong to pin his ears back and get after the QB.  I'm confident he'll be one of the best all-around DT's in the game very soon.  Dude's a beast.


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#20 : November 12, 2010, 04:38:10 PM

I don't disagree with above, nor did I think you were trying to diminish - just chuckling at the thought that occurred to me..

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Mean D

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#21 : November 12, 2010, 04:41:06 PM

Suh wipes his rump with McCoy and I can't believe anyone is surprised by this.  He smoked him in college, he smoked him in all workouts, and tore him up on the bench press.  And now he is smoking him in the NFL.  SURPRISE!

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#22 : November 13, 2010, 09:59:14 AM

Funny, McCoy and the defensive line that he is the FOCUS of has 5 wins. Suh has 2 wins. So when is Suh making this big impression and taking over games? It can't be when it matters because Suh only has two wins. If you want to add the grey matter that the rest of his team is awful, I'll give you that. But if I give you that you have to give me that Vandenbosch and the rest of Detroits d-line frees up Suh in the middle leading to fewer double teams than McCoy, which leads to more sacks. But that is all fantasy, and I am a reality type of guy.  McCoy and his defense have 5 wins, Suh and his have 2.
So while you are drooling over a guy that has led his defense to 2 wins, I am very happy watching my guy actually being "awful" and having a team with 5 wins.
Tampa fans are the guy that has the hot ass girl but can't enjoy her because they are looking at what some other guy has on his arm. That is called low self esteem guys. We have a good DT that is getting better, stop paying attention to a guy that has two wins and enjoy watching our guy grow into his position.  I personally am enjoying this team emensely. lol

DanishBucFan

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#23 : November 13, 2010, 10:08:59 AM

smove28 wrote:
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Funny, McCoy and the defensive line that he is the FOCUS of has 5 wins. Suh has 2 wins. So when is Suh making this big impression and taking over games? It can't be when it matters because Suh only has two wins. If you want to add the grey matter that the rest of his team is awful, I'll give you that. But if I give you that you have to give me that Vandenbosch and the rest of Detroits d-line frees up Suh in the middle leading to fewer double teams than McCoy, which leads to more sacks. But that is all fantasy, and I am a reality type of guy.  McCoy and his defense have 5 wins, Suh and his have 2.
So while you are drooling over a guy that has led his defense to 2 wins, I am very happy watching my guy actually being "awful" and having a team with 5 wins.
Tampa fans are the guy that has the hot *censored* girl but can't enjoy her because they are looking at what some other guy has on his arm. That is called low self esteem guys. We have a good DT that is getting better, stop paying attention to a guy that has two wins and enjoy watching our guy grow into his position.  I personally am enjoying this team emensely. lol


A lot of truth in this statement imo, but I don't think it's just drooling. Players get linked if they play similar positions at similar levels and are drafted close to each others. I think it's kind of natural looking at the comparison afterwards.

For now it is still impossible to know what career any of the two will have. So far I'm not negatively surprised by the performance of McCoy and I don't think that any one should be. I still feel very confident that he will be a prime playmaker for us in years to come - but then again, I have been wrong many times before...

For now anyone has to admit that Suh is producing some great highlights!!!!

Hate

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#24 : November 13, 2010, 11:03:38 AM

smove28 wrote:
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Funny, McCoy and the defensive line that he is the FOCUS of has 5 wins. Suh has 2 wins. So when is Suh making this big impression and taking over games? It can't be when it matters because Suh only has two wins. If you want to add the grey matter that the rest of his team is awful, I'll give you that. But if I give you that you have to give me that Vandenbosch and the rest of Detroits d-line frees up Suh in the middle leading to fewer double teams than McCoy, which leads to more sacks. But that is all fantasy, and I am a reality type of guy.  McCoy and his defense have 5 wins, Suh and his have 2.
So while you are drooling over a guy that has led his defense to 2 wins, I am very happy watching my guy actually being "awful" and having a team with 5 wins.
Tampa fans are the guy that has the hot *censored* girl but can't enjoy her because they are looking at what some other guy has on his arm. That is called low self esteem guys. We have a good DT that is getting better, stop paying attention to a guy that has two wins and enjoy watching our guy grow into his position.  I personally am enjoying this team emensely. lol


Would your same logic apply to Ruud and say, umm...... Patrick Willis?

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#25 : November 13, 2010, 11:31:39 AM

Boid Fink wrote:
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But McCoy is not a good run defender, he is part of one of the worst unit's in the NFL.  And he was supposed to help with his strong hands and strong legs.  Should have resigned HOvan, Like I said a few times.  Hovan was a better run defender FWIW.


B-Fink, i love ya man.... but re-sign Hovan? Aww, hell naw!!!

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#26 : November 13, 2010, 12:17:32 PM

This thread should not be a surprised to anyone. Coming out of college this was his problem. He used pure strength and people thought he wouldn't be able to do that in the NFL and thats why Gerald McCoy was ranked higher on a lot of peoples boards. McCoy had the technique and quickness to do well. I personally thought everybody was crazy and Suh was just a beast and if you had a chance to get him you couldn't pass it up. But we didn't and we took the next best option.

notabucsfan

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#27 : November 13, 2010, 12:17:33 PM

This thread should not be a surprised to anyone. Coming out of college this was his problem. He used pure strength and people thought he wouldn't be able to do that in the NFL and thats why Gerald McCoy was ranked higher on a lot of peoples boards. McCoy had the technique and quickness to do well. I personally thought everybody was crazy and Suh was just a beast and if you had a chance to get him you couldn't pass it up. But we didn't and we took the next best option.

smove28

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#28 : November 13, 2010, 12:43:03 PM

As of now, no. Here is why. Barrett Ruud and Patrick Willis have both established what they are through "years" of playing in the NFL. We have no idea what McCoy will grow into. If you ask me this in 3 years after I have seen McCoy play, my opinion may be different, but after 8 games I cannot tell you what he will be. My eyes tell me he is starting to get better and my eyes also tell me that he plays on a defense that has 5 wins. It is very simple really.

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#29 : November 13, 2010, 01:30:15 PM

Barrett topped out - definitively - after a year or two of decent play next to a legend.

Willis started well continues to get better.

Is that the point - one doesn't know how good a rookie will become?  

Re: McCoy - you now what you're seeing - he is improving with his intensity/confidence enabling him to come darned close to making plays.  The 5 win gig means little - unless one notes the wins are a result of Freeman - but that would be hijacking the thread...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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