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dbucfan

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#15 : November 14, 2010, 08:40:02 PM

A little more talent on D, and maybe a Olineman or so - and Freeman will get the opportunity to show he can play effectively week in and week out against the top 8 to 10 teams in the league - he doesn't need to win the SB - but he does need to compete with those teams and win more than he loses.  Then it is valid.

As for the drafting of Freeman - I was left cold by the pick.  Didn't like it, wanted Harvin, and I am damned glad we have Freeman.  He has won me over.  Agree with the drafting comment.  Getting Williams and Benn, and the trade for KW2, theft of Blount - all that has been wonderful imvho.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

BuccinTex

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#16 : November 14, 2010, 08:48:48 PM

yeah and I was totally against Harvin.  Mainly because of injuries and I have a bias, although it's small, against gators.   I have to admit I was wrong about how well he would do as a receiver.  I'm actually feeling pretty bad for him about the migraines thing.  He is better then I thought in this league.  I would have taken maclin over harvin but I don't know now.  Maybe still maclin because he's been pretty healthy but Harvin is better at running routes then I ever gave him credit for.   Oh well it's all worked out for us in the end.  We got our QB and by the looks of things a couple good receivers.    Oh and you won't find anyone complaining about the k2 trade anymore.   I don't care if he ever practices or shows up for minicamps again as long as he produces on sunday and stays healthy for games.


dbucfan

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#17 : November 14, 2010, 08:53:14 PM

KW2 can play for sure.  His practice schedule flew right into the mantra Rah was putting out about no one missing practices.  Rah's handling and understanding of KW2's value and needs has impressed me.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

ryan24

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#18 : November 14, 2010, 08:59:28 PM

BuccinTex wrote:
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Call me crazy but looking at that top 10 QB list.....I'd take freeman over Rivers any day of the week and twice on Sunday because for starters.....freeman can win you games on sunday.  Rivers doesn't seem to be able to put that team on his back and get the wins despite the rest of them playing bad.  Freeman has already proven he can do that and that's why I take him over Rivers easily.


We're gettin' a little crazy here. Rivers is better than Freeman at this point and very likely always will be.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

nubcake

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#19 : November 14, 2010, 09:18:39 PM

Replace Carson Palmer with David Garrard. What he's doing with absolutely no receivers and a shaky offensive line is extremely impressive. And Mike Vick deserves strong consideration in the top 10 as well. I'm honestly not sure I'm quite ready to put Freeman in the top 10 just yet. Probably about 12th or so.

Great QBs frequently have games against mediocre or worse teams in which they have great accuracy, throw for 250ish yards, a couple TDs and no INTs. I think Freeman is now entering that stage of his development(he had great games against Arizona and Carolina), but I think to include him in the top 10 he has to show a little more consistency throughout all 4 quarters.

But hey, it's his second season. Even the greats like Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rivers had their consistency issues in the second season.


Hate

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#20 : November 14, 2010, 09:22:00 PM

Captain Hindsight wrote:
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Sorry, no way is Freeman better than Rivers. Rivers is a monster, and judging him by not being able to win on Sunday is crazy talk. It's like judging a pitcher by his W/L record. It's like Flacco's playoff record, it's magnificent but his personal stats are horrid... even in the wins. Rivers is a top 3 QB IMO.


What would Rivers do with this roster?

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

dbucfan

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#21 : November 14, 2010, 09:24:21 PM

Hate wrote:
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Captain Hindsight wrote:
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Sorry, no way is Freeman better than Rivers. Rivers is a monster, and judging him by not being able to win on Sunday is crazy talk. It's like judging a pitcher by his W/L record. It's like Flacco's playoff record, it's magnificent but his personal stats are horrid... even in the wins. Rivers is a top 3 QB IMO.


What would Rivers do with this roster?


He wouldn't suck - LOL

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

smove28

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#22 : November 14, 2010, 09:27:22 PM

ryan24 wrote:
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BuccinTex wrote:
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Call me crazy but looking at that top 10 QB list.....I'd take freeman over Rivers any day of the week and twice on Sunday because for starters.....freeman can win you games on sunday.  Rivers doesn't seem to be able to put that team on his back and get the wins despite the rest of them playing bad.  Freeman has already proven he can do that and that's why I take him over Rivers easily.


We're gettin' a little crazy here. Rivers is better than Freeman at this point and very likely always will be.


Rivers has all the physical skills in the world, but I would take Freeman any day over Rivers. Rivers is a head case and it shows by the fact that with as many talented teams that he has had, including when LT was healthy and Merriman was on 'roids, he has not won anything. I believe he never will. He's destined to be another Dan Fouts. Lots of numbers, no rings. If you look at Freeman, he looks like a guy that can win the big one if given the opportunity. Give me that and you keep Rivers.

Benchwarmer#1

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#23 : November 14, 2010, 09:29:30 PM

The simple answer is no, he is not. Not yet.

Has he won any playoffs? If not, we can't place him any higher than a Garcia. And in MY book, Garcia was less than BJ. Sure, JG had a hell of a completition percentage, but could he win the BIG games? I would say no.

I'm not saying talentwise we can't just speculate about it of course. I'm just saying, in the national media, saying that would be a bit brash. Particularly when there are a handfull of past Bucs QB's that have made it to playoffs. And Yes, they had a better defense, but at the same time they were making poor/old offenses work just enough.

Do I believe Freeman WILL BECOME the best here? Oh yeah. After seeing the changes made after last year and the confidence he brings every game, man... If he stays healthy he should be a ballbuster for opposing teams for a long, long time. When he wins his first PO, that's when It would be easy to place the "best Bucs OB ever" tag on him jmo.

One thing is for sure. It's very difficult to not suggest more help on the offense with a guy like Freeman QBing. I suggest OL.


 :cheer:

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

Hate

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#24 : November 14, 2010, 09:30:01 PM

dbucfan wrote:
Quote
Hate wrote:
Quote
Captain Hindsight wrote:
Quote
Sorry, no way is Freeman better than Rivers. Rivers is a monster, and judging him by not being able to win on Sunday is crazy talk. It's like judging a pitcher by his W/L record. It's like Flacco's playoff record, it's magnificent but his personal stats are horrid... even in the wins. Rivers is a top 3 QB IMO.


What would Rivers do with this roster?


He wouldn't suck - LOL


He's good, no doubt....but he's had a far more talented roster around him than Free, and still faltered. As this stage of his career, give me Free5.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

Biggs3535

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#25 : November 14, 2010, 09:33:43 PM

Hate wrote:
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What would Rivers do with this roster?


Well, he's done some good things (as in lead the league in passing) with Malcolm Floyd, Seyi Ajirotutu, Legudu Neenee, Buster Davis, and Patrick Crayton as his WR's.  Some I'm guessing he would do fine with Williams, Benn, Spurlock, Stroughter, and Parker.

Even the game Gates missed, Randy friggin' McMichael caught 2 TD passes.


Hate

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#26 : November 14, 2010, 09:38:08 PM

Biggs3535 wrote:
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Hate wrote:
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What would Rivers do with this roster?


Well, he's done some good things (as in lead the league in passing) with Malcolm Floyd, Seyi Ajirotutu, Legudu Neenee, Buster Davis, and Patrick Crayton as his WR's.  Some I'm guessing he would do fine with Williams, Benn, Spurlock, Stroughter, and Parker.

Even the game Gates missed, Randy friggin' McMichael caught 2 TD passes.


Aside from the name i can't pronounce, those guys all have NFL experience. What Free is doing, surrounded by all this youth, is pretty damned amazing.

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

Biggs3535

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#27 : November 14, 2010, 09:46:55 PM

I don't think it's Freeman-bashing to say Rivers has been better than him this season.  Rivers has been the best QB in the league this season with a bunch of no-name WR's, while his #1 WR is suspended.


dbucfan

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#28 : November 14, 2010, 10:03:03 PM

Hate wrote:
Quote
dbucfan wrote:
Quote
Hate wrote:
Quote
Captain Hindsight wrote:
Quote
Sorry, no way is Freeman better than Rivers. Rivers is a monster, and judging him by not being able to win on Sunday is crazy talk. It's like judging a pitcher by his W/L record. It's like Flacco's playoff record, it's magnificent but his personal stats are horrid... even in the wins. Rivers is a top 3 QB IMO.


What would Rivers do with this roster?


He wouldn't suck - LOL


He's good, no doubt....but he's had a far more talented roster around him than Free, and still faltered. As this stage of his career, give me Free5.


I think the talent the Chargers have is not all that much better than the buccs - they do have an experienced franchise qb... and that changes a lot.  And their Oline is likely better than that of the buccs -

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Bucs33

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#29 : November 14, 2010, 10:12:15 PM

Good lord, fans are always so fast to jump the gun on everything.  IS this just for making a discusion or serrious.

Rob Johnson has more super bowl rings than Josh Freeman.
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