Any doubts about MD and RM should be erased

[Hate]

bradentonian wrote:

Poor haters...  all that pissing and moaning all offseason, then Raheem and the boys go and ruin it with all those pesky wins

Exactly!!!

Illuminator wrote:

Beating one of the worst teams in the NFL at home really impressed the hell out of you, didn't it?

I prefer that to losing to a 1 win team like the Giants did. Damn, i swear, people are never satisfied!

[Feel Real Good]

dbucfan wrote:

Biggs3535 wrote:

dbucfan wrote:

Biggs3535 wrote:

dbucfan wrote:

And our young players will have to learn it all themselves.

I hope the Bucs never sign a player to teach, because that's what coaches are paid for.  Players are supposed to play.

Teaching like Hardy Nickerson did while with the buccs got them a SB.

Hardy was a helluva player, not just a teacher.  Who was the last Nickerson-type FA to change teams?  I don't think Igor Olshansky quite measures up.

Hardy taught and left - and the bucs as you know won the SB after he was gone.  But his teaching and influence.. you know all of this.  Could someone like Olshansky or Bernard help first and second year players in a similar manner.  Well, seems you know better than me.  Thanks for letting me try to have a conversation about it.

Come on Olshansky and Bernard aren't fit to drive Nickerson to the airport.

[blackthoughtz]

cyberdude558 wrote:

The schedule is the reason this team is 6-3 and not 3-6.

At the start of the year, people said this team was 6 to 8 wins AT BEST with an average NFL schedule. That was consensus opinion. That may be true. But you wont see much improvement until the defense improves. And that will be awhile.

Statistically, you don't get winning records and playoff berths when you have no pass rush AND can't stop the run. What we are getting away with this year is the exception, not the rule. With next year's schedule, we will be murdered if we dont establish a pass rush.

This team absolutely MUST bring in at least one proven free agent pass rusher. They have to. They can draft a guy as well. But somebody needs to start putting pressure on the QBs until this line is developed. Or this team will regress.

Nobody took schedule into effect when they were predicting us to pick first in the draft. So to use it as an excuse prove the opposite is idiotic and hypocritical. But the rest of your post I agree with

[dbucfan]

Bucfanintex - this is why I don't like to mention names - I try to explain who and why - and immediately everything is taken to the extremes.  Tiresome.

Okay FRG - I am not making the point anything beyond the opinion that no having any successful/experienced dlinemen might well inhibit the progress of the buc's young dlinemen.  One might well carry that to the LBs as well.  Ronde fills the role with the DBs.

[Biggs3535]

Feel Real Good wrote:

Come on Olshansky and Bernard aren't fit to drive Nickerson to the airport.

Nope.



dbucfan wrote:

One might well carry that to the LBs as well.

Isn't Ruud supposed to fill the exact role you are describing?

[ABuccsFan]

dbucfan wrote:

Nobody said anything about spending crazy money abucs - don't have to spend crazy money when all you need is a vet or two to show the kids the ropes.

Overrated and cliche'. The coaches show the kids the ropes.

[CyberDilemma]

To put things into perspective:

Tampa Bay became the first team to start seven rookies and win since Nov.?24, 2002, when the Cowboys edged the Jaguars 21-19.

[awitron]

I'm still waiting for people to realize this isnt as much about Raheem and Dominik as it as about JOSH FREEMAN and his development as one of the best QBs in the league. 6-3 this year, 12 TDs to only 5 INTs and completing 60% of his passes. This isnt about the coach and GM.. its about having a real franchise QB.

Strength of schedule and holes on the team are variables every single year. We have the one constant that is necessary to win and thats a franchise QB. This entire franchise goes as he goes.

[Ramonb]

Illuminator wrote:

audioboy wrote:

Any doubts about MD and RM should be erased

Beating one of the worst teams in the NFL at home really impressed the hell out of you, didn't it?

Its eating you up isn't it.

[Feel Real Good]

It's pretty easy to cry about DL moves in hindsight, but if you remember what was going on at the time, you can see what they were thinking, especially when you consider how much money was invested in the defense compared to the offense and how much better that unit continued to perform.

2005: Rice was still performing at a high level, they were hoping Dewayne White would become something, they just gave Hovan a big contract, and Booger was still around.

2006: Rice had a good season the year before though he'd drop off in 2006, they still had White developing, Hovan and Booger were both still there.

2007: Gaines Adams is drafted to replace Rice, they bring in Kevin Carter to play opposite (not really helping your case a longtime great like Carter couldn't help Adams), Greg White comes out of nowhere, Jovan Haye comes out of nowhere, and Hovan was still around.

2008: Still hoping Adams took the next step, Greg White still a good player, hoping Haye can repeat his success, Hovan still around, Ryan Sims added.

[bradentonian]

awitron wrote:

I'm still waiting for people to realize this isnt as much about Raheem and Dominik as it as about JOSH FREEMAN and his development as one of the best QBs in the league. 6-3 this year, 12 TDs to only 5 INTs and completing 60% of his passes. This isnt about the coach and GM.. its about having a real franchise QB.

Strength of schedule and holes on the team are variables every single year. We have the one constant that is necessary to win and thats a franchise QB. This entire franchise goes as he goes.

Morris and Dom are the reasons we have Freeman, and have been smart enough to build a team around him

[Hate]

Ramonb wrote:

Illuminator wrote:

audioboy wrote:

Any doubts about MD and RM should be erased

Beating one of the worst teams in the NFL at home really impressed the hell out of you, didn't it?

Its eating you up isn't it.

It sure as hell seems to be. Gotta give him credit for showing up though, unlike others of his ilk that have tucked tail and disappeared.

[dbucfan]

Feel Real Good wrote:

It's pretty easy to cry about DL moves in hindsight, but if you remember what was going on at the time, you can see what they were thinking, especially when you consider how much money was invested in the defense compared to the offense and how much better that unit continued to perform.

2005: Rice was still performing at a high level, they were hoping Dewayne White would become something, they just gave Hovan a big contract, and Booger was still around.

2006: Rice had a good season the year before though he'd drop off in 2006, they still had White developing, Hovan and Booger were both still there.

2007: Gaines Adams is drafted to replace Rice, they bring in Kevin Carter to play opposite (not really helping your case a longtime great like Carter couldn't help Adams), Greg White comes out of nowhere, Jovan Haye comes out of nowhere, and Hovan was still around.

2008: Still hoping Adams took the next step, Greg White still a good player, hoping Haye can repeat his success, Hovan still around, Ryan Sims added.

I was referencing the time since the buccs ran out of established veteran who could play.  You know - like the last few of years.  

Not having guys who could play UT since Sapp was sent packing is a separate subject.

Not making an effort to replace Sapp until 2010 is a separate subject.  

Not having a DE other than Rice would be another separate subject.

It is always great to see the knowledge you have of the buccs though - appreciate it.  

All that knowledge you listed - does that mean the bucs do have veterans than can help the young bucs become pros faster?

[dbucfan]

ABuccsFan wrote:

dbucfan wrote:

Nobody said anything about spending crazy money abucs - don't have to spend crazy money when all you need is a vet or two to show the kids the ropes.

Overrated and cliche'. The coaches show the kids the ropes.

You need to let Brooks and Sapp know.  They are the two buccaneer players who give so much credit to Hardy.  I have seen it on other squads - but there is no reason to believe me  since we don't agree on this one.  Pretty easy for a buc fan to check on what Brooks and Sapp have said regarding Hardy though.

[Feel Real Good]

dbucfan wrote:

All that knowledge you listed - does that mean the bucs do have veterans than can help the young bucs become pros faster?

I've never been a big believer veterans make young players better. I'm of the belief players either have talent or they don't.