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#15 : November 16, 2010, 05:17:34 PM

If we are just talking 4-3 defenses, then Jon Beason, Lance Briggs, Mike Peterson, Brian Cushing, and Keith Rivers come to mind.
I'd rather have a good MLB than any of those guys at ROLB. Two of them (Beason and Peterson) have been MLB's predominantly. And Cushing plays LOLB.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#16 : November 16, 2010, 05:21:52 PM

They could both stand to be upgraded.  But only one is a FA after this season, so that's who will be replaced first.


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#17 : November 16, 2010, 05:37:56 PM

If we are just talking 4-3 defenses, then Jon Beason, Lance Briggs, Mike Peterson, Brian Cushing, and Keith Rivers come to mind.
I'd rather have a good MLB than any of those guys at ROLB. Two of them (Beason and Peterson) have been MLB's predominantly. And Cushing plays LOLB.

You're right about Cushing. But why is it you think that guys like Jon Beason and Mike Peterson, who can play both inside and outside, are lined up at ROLB in their defenses? Is it because Dan Connor and Curtis Lofton are the best linebackers on their teams? Or is it because they are the best linebackers on their teams and therefor, are being lined up at the most important spot?

We may not be a pure Tampa 2 team anymore, but we are still a cover 2 hybrid defense that operates out of the 4-3 most of the time. The only other formation we use nearly as much is the 3-3-5, which still relies heavily on the play of the OLB's.

The notion that Morris blitzes the middle linebacker a lot is false. More often than not, Quincy Black and Geno Hayes are called on to blitz. Ruud doesn't blitz nearly enough IMO. The most I have ever seen him blitz in a game was last Sunday, and it was his best game of the season.

I'm not making the argument that Barrett Ruud is in Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis' league. I am making the argument that there is less of a drop talent wise from Hardy Nickerson to Barrett Ruud than there is from Derrick Brooks to Geno Hayes.
: November 16, 2010, 05:41:45 PM Samuel Dow


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#18 : November 16, 2010, 06:00:07 PM

I'm not making the argument that Barrett Ruud is in Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis' league. I am making the argument that there is less of a drop talent wise from Hardy Nickerson to Barrett Ruud than there is from Derrick Brooks to Geno Hayes.
I'm not really interested in comparing either of them to Hall of Fame players. I think you can learn a lot more comparing them to above average players. I believe the difference between Ruud and EJ Henderson or David Harris is a lot bigger than the difference between Hayes and Chad Greenway.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#19 : November 16, 2010, 06:03:41 PM

I think Ruud could be a decent starter for a team like Indy that plays the Tampa Two 100% of the time.

I think Hayes would be a back up on just about every other team in the league.

Both need to be upgraded. I'll take Nate Irving and Casey Mathews please. Thanks Dom.


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#20 : November 16, 2010, 06:05:53 PM

i think ruud has shown his ceiling, but i dont think hayes has.  upgrade the middle, and you still have adequate backups on the outside in hayward/watson until we find out if hayes will boom or bust.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#21 : November 16, 2010, 06:09:13 PM

But why is it you think that guys like Jon Beason and Mike Peterson, who can play both inside and outside, are lined up at ROLB in their defenses? Is it because Dan Connor and Curtis Lofton are the best linebackers on their teams? Or is it because they are the best linebackers on their teams and therefor, are being lined up at the most important spot?

Beason was moved for a couple of reasons, one being Ron Meeks wanting to get him the Brooks-position for his T2 defense.  The other being Dan Connor is a pretty damn good MLB.  Peterson was moved outside because Lofton is a better run defender - which is clearly what most teams are looking for in their Mike.



Ruud doesn't blitz nearly enough IMO.

Sorry, man - this made me chuckle...

Let me ask you, as a fan of Ruud's, why is it you think Ruud had to juke the (3rd/4th string, 212 lb) RB in order to get that sack?  Why couldn't he go through him?

Ruud gets stood up by too many RB's already when he blitzes, I don't think he should be doing that more.  It's clearly the weakest part of his game.


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#22 : November 16, 2010, 06:20:24 PM

The primary reason Beason got moved was because of the injury to Thomas Davis. If Davis was healthy, Beason would still be at MLB and Connor probably at SLB.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#23 : November 16, 2010, 06:39:52 PM

I think Ruud could be a decent starter for a team like Indy that plays the Tampa Two 100% of the time.

I think Hayes would be a back up on just about every other team in the league.

Both need to be upgraded. I'll take Nate Irving and Casey Mathews please. Thanks Dom.

Pretty much my opinion.

JDouble. Can you shrink your avatar? It shows up HUGE on my screen. Takes up pretty much the entire page when combined with the obnoxious red social banner that can't be minimized.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#24 : November 16, 2010, 06:41:13 PM

i think ruud has shown his ceiling, but i dont think hayes has.  upgrade the middle, and you still have adequate backups on the outside in hayward/watson until we find out if hayes will boom or bust.

The Bucs have an adequate backup at Will. The only problem is that he's the starting Will.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#25 : November 16, 2010, 07:18:58 PM

I think Ruud could be a decent starter for a team like Indy that plays the Tampa Two 100% of the time.

I think Hayes would be a back up on just about every other team in the league.

Both need to be upgraded. I'll take Nate Irving and Casey Mathews please. Thanks Dom.

Pretty much my opinion.

JDouble. Can you shrink your avatar? It shows up HUGE on my screen. Takes up pretty much the entire page when combined with the obnoxious red social banner that can't be minimized.

Trust me I'd love to shrink my sig pic. Sadly it's a bug. I don't even have a sig pic currently. This one just carried over from the old boards and I can't get rid of it. They have to fix it internally. I know it's annoying. Sorry.  :o


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#26 : November 16, 2010, 08:53:25 PM

I'm not making the argument that Barrett Ruud is in Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis' league. I am making the argument that there is less of a drop talent wise from Hardy Nickerson to Barrett Ruud than there is from Derrick Brooks to Geno Hayes.
I'm not really interested in comparing either of them to Hall of Fame players. I think you can learn a lot more comparing them to above average players. I believe the difference between Ruud and EJ Henderson or David Harris is a lot bigger than the difference between Hayes and Chad Greenway.

 :o

That is utter craziness. Barrett Ruud does not play the run as well as E.J. Henderson, but he is an efficient player and capable starter. You have to be at least that in order to finish 2nd in the NFL in tackles like he did in '08. Geno Hayes can't hold a candle to Chad Greenway. It's not even close. Greenway already has almost as many tackles in 9 games this year than what Hayes had in all of '09, let alone this season. They shouldn't even be in the same discussion.


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#27 : November 16, 2010, 10:01:15 PM

Jdoub.....it's like the Blob.

The obnoxious red social banner is so useful that it blocks off the scroll across button which, because of the size, of jdoub's siggy, I need to do in order to hit the quote or reply button.

How about we get rid of the obnoxious red social banner which is pretty useless or at least allow it to be minimized?

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

JDouble

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#28 : November 17, 2010, 12:35:42 AM

Jdoub.....it's like the Blob.

The obnoxious red social banner is so useful that it blocks off the scroll across button which, because of the size, of jdoub's siggy, I need to do in order to hit the quote or reply button.

How about we get rid of the obnoxious red social banner which is pretty useless or at least allow it to be minimized?

I agree. I don't know anyone who likes the red social bar. As far as sigs...how about a size limit or auto resize function?


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#29 : November 17, 2010, 03:23:57 AM

Well written post CBW!! Hayes is the weakest link at this point of time, even though Ruud is taking most of the flak.

I think we all agree that Ruud has been far from playing his best game and that there are other MLBs in the league that everyone would prefer to have. I am no Ruud-fan as such but the important question in the off-season will off course be what upgrade to prioritize, and in that regard I don't see a change coming at MLB unless we can get a strong FA player. Our need to upgrade the horrible DE's should outweigh the need to upgrade an average MLB.
It should however very possible to upgrade Hayes with a mid round pick which combined with upgrades at DE will make Ruud very serviceable for another year. After that if he continues to suck then by all means draft a new MLB.
Ruud has proven in 07 and 08 that he can play well and with the right surrounding cast I think he has the possibility of performing well once more. To say that he has shown his ceiling as compared to Hayes is not a true assessment imo.

On the other hand Rah's public affection for certain MLBs in the draft off course can be seen as an indication that he is looking for a replacement. Much will probably depend on how much $ Ruud is looking for next year...
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