Here's some info for all of you trying to squash the 5th down...

[BuccinTex]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

What are you talking about?

Open your eyes.  1st down is at the TWELVE yard line. 

McNabb's pass on 1st down is LESS THAN TEN YARDS.

I don't need to see "official" markers to know that a play isn't even close to ten yards.

No jackass you don't need to see those markers to know you're being pissy over a questionable spot nothing more.   Throw the goddamn markers and lines out of it those are wrong and unofficial.   You know what nevermind you loonies can beat the dead horse all you want.   Get it going 15 pages I don't care anymore.  I just won't open anything with 5 DOWNS OMGZ! type crap in the title.   Enjoy your bickering boys. 

[SnookAU]

This isn't very difficult, people.

It all starts at the 12 yard line.  Look where the ball is started off from on 1st down.  Its right on the 12 yard line.  And the first down play comes no where near the 2 yard line.

And if the "official" markers vs the "un-official" markers is where this all stems from, then why was there no measurement on such a close spot?

[SnookAU]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

What are you talking about?

Open your eyes.  1st down is at the TWELVE yard line. 

McNabb's pass on 1st down is LESS THAN TEN YARDS.

I don't need to see "official" markers to know that a play isn't even close to ten yards.

No jackass you don't need to see those markers to know you're being pissy over a questionable spot nothing more.   Throw the goddamn markers and lines out of it those are wrong and unofficial.   You know what nevermind you loonies can beat the dead horse all you want.   Get it going 15 pages I don't care anymore.  I just won't open anything with 5 DOWNS OMGZ! type crap in the title.   Enjoy your bickering boys.

Resort to namecalling when you're wrong.  That's fine. 

But riddle me this, referee...  If the ball is marked at the 12 on first down, and the pass doesn't make it to the 2 yard line, then how is that a first down?

If you can answer that, you can call me a jackass all you want.

I don't care about markers...  LOOK AT THE ACTUAL BALL SPOT. 

[BerubesBucs]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

[FlyingScorpion]

the box score for the last 2 minutes:

# Two-Minute Warning
# 1-10-TB 45 (2:00) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short left to 35-K.Williams ran ob at TB 30 for 15 yards.
# 1-10-TB 30 (1:52) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short left to 35-K.Williams (20-R.Barber).
# 2-10-TB 30 (1:48) 5-D.McNabb pass short middle to 35-K.Williams to TB 21 for 9 yards (20-R.Barber; 54-G.Hayes).
# 3-1-TB 21 (1:15) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short left to 89-S.Moss to TB 12 for 9 yards (51-B.Ruud).
# 1-10-TB 12 (:49) (Shotgun) 5-D.McNabb pass short right to 13-A.Armstrong to TB 2 for 10 yards (41-C.Lynch).
# Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:32.
# 1-2-TB 2 (:32) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short right to 87-R.Williams.
# 2-2-TB 2 (:28) 46-R.Torain right end ran ob at TB 6 for -4 yards (96-T.Crowder).
# 3-6-TB 6 (:18) 5-D.McNabb pass incomplete short middle to 86-F.Davis.
# 4-6-TB 6 (:13) 5-D.McNabb pass short middle to 89-S.Moss for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
# 4-G.Gano extra point is Aborted, Center-57-N.Sundberg, Holder-17-H.Smith. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
# TB 17    WAS 16    Plays: 13    Possession: 3:38

[SnookAU]

1st down from the 12:
The ball (AND sideline ref) are clearly at the 12. 
If you agree with that, then arguing there was a 1st down on the next play is LUDICROUS. 



2nd down from the 3:



So I'm supposed to believe that this isn't 2nd down from the 3?  That its actually 1st and goal from the 2?

Then the Bucs should've been ruled offsides... because we have about six players in the nuetral zone. 

[BuccinTex]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

Then NFL network and it's crew are stupid, Scott Reynolds and Raheem Morris.....all THIS stupid.    One of these days you morons will learn to read and listen and process.   Until then may god have mercy on your souls.   He's said it about 3 times already but you guys still keep going back to the markers instead of the BAD SPOT which is actually the only problem and the rest was simple confusion because the announcers and far side guys had no clue it was ruled a first down.   If Raheem really thought the spot was that bad and they were in the middle of being bent over he would have thrown the challenge flag but he didn't.   I guess you and snooki and the situation know best though so like I said keep going and stop trying to pull me back in.   Leave me out of your imaginary witch hunt.   Refs are stupid and horrible every week for damn near every team.  You all sound like Mike Shanahan.  Bunch of cry babies.   The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.   With him booted out of the game Mike WIll and the rest of the receivers go wild.   

[PewterG@tor]

There is no way that anyone can tell me with a straight face that the games have been called evenly over the last few weeks.  The 5th down is certainly the most blatant eff job I have seen in quite some time.  There is no rationale that can be placed on that abortion

[SnookAU]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

Then NFL network and it's crew are stupid, Scott Reynolds and Raheem Morris.....all THIS stupid.    One of these days you morons will learn to read and listen and process.   Until then may god have mercy on your souls.   He's said it about 3 times already but you guys still keep going back to the markers instead of the BAD SPOT which is actually the only problem and the rest was simple confusion because the announcers and far side guys had no clue it was ruled a first down.   If Raheem really thought the spot was that bad and they were in the middle of being bent over he would have thrown the challenge flag but he didn't.   I guess you and snooki and the situation know best though so like I said keep going and stop trying to pull me back in.   Leave me out of your imaginary witch hunt.   Refs are stupid and horrible every week for damn near every team.  You all sound like Mike Shanahan.  Bunch of cry babies.   The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.   With him booted out of the game Mike WIll and the rest of the receivers go wild.

Still don't see where you explain how ten yards was gained on 1st down.

Can't explain that, huh?  Why not?

If I'm such an idiot... then explain it to me.

All the NFL has said was that it was marked a 1st down on the 2.  I get that.  But that logic is seriously flawed because the ball never made it to the 2.

[PewterG@tor]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

Then NFL network and it's crew are stupid, Scott Reynolds and Raheem Morris.....all THIS stupid.    One of these days you morons will learn to read and listen and process.   Until then may god have mercy on your souls.   He's said it about 3 times already but you guys still keep going back to the markers instead of the BAD SPOT which is actually the only problem and the rest was simple confusion because the announcers and far side guys had no clue it was ruled a first down.   If Raheem really thought the spot was that bad and they were in the middle of being bent over he would have thrown the challenge flag but he didn't.   I guess you and snooki and the situation know best though so like I said keep going and stop trying to pull me back in.   Leave me out of your imaginary witch hunt.   Refs are stupid and horrible every week for damn near every team.  You all sound like Mike Shanahan.  Bunch of cry babies.   The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.   With him booted out of the game Mike WIll and the rest of the receivers go wild.

Guess why he didn't throw the challenge flag...because it was inside 2 minutes and a booth review (which of course never came) would have to be initiated.

[BuccaNova]

The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.

Yeah, I could not believe that. Happened almost right in front of me and I turned and said, sweet, Hall will be ejected. Nope. You get fined and flagged for looking at Peyton Manning cross-eyed but now you can actually strike an official in anger.  As long as it's not to the head, I guess.  I gotta say the refs didn't call a lot of stuff on both sides, I thought. But batting the officials arms?  I felt the same way...passing game, here we come.  But nope.

[Ramonb]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

Then NFL network and it's crew are stupid, Scott Reynolds and Raheem Morris.....all THIS stupid.    One of these days you morons will learn to read and listen and process.   Until then may god have mercy on your souls.   He's said it about 3 times already but you guys still keep going back to the markers instead of the BAD SPOT which is actually the only problem and the rest was simple confusion because the announcers and far side guys had no clue it was ruled a first down.   If Raheem really thought the spot was that bad and they were in the middle of being bent over he would have thrown the challenge flag but he didn't.   I guess you and snooki and the situation know best though so like I said keep going and stop trying to pull me back in.   Leave me out of your imaginary witch hunt.   Refs are stupid and horrible every week for damn near every team.  You all sound like Mike Shanahan.  Bunch of cry babies.   The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.   With him booted out of the game Mike WIll and the rest of the receivers go wild.

I understand what your saying, but it wasn't the yellow line that was wrong, it was where the actual 1st down marker was placed.  If you actually count the yards on the screen, for some inexplicable reason, the officials set the 1st down marker only 9 yards down the field instead of 10.  At first I thought it was the yellow marker like everyone else, but after actually looking at someone mark it out, its obvious the marker was...uhm...misplaced.

Heres a link that really shows it well http://www.bucschat.com/showthread.php?27933-Doing-my-part-to-help-those-who-are-visual-impaired-CJ

[SnookAU]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

Then NFL network and it's crew are stupid, Scott Reynolds and Raheem Morris.....all THIS stupid.    One of these days you morons will learn to read and listen and process.   Until then may god have mercy on your souls.   He's said it about 3 times already but you guys still keep going back to the markers instead of the BAD SPOT which is actually the only problem and the rest was simple confusion because the announcers and far side guys had no clue it was ruled a first down.   If Raheem really thought the spot was that bad and they were in the middle of being bent over he would have thrown the challenge flag but he didn't.   I guess you and snooki and the situation know best though so like I said keep going and stop trying to pull me back in.   Leave me out of your imaginary witch hunt.   Refs are stupid and horrible every week for damn near every team.  You all sound like Mike Shanahan.  Bunch of cry babies.   The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.   With him booted out of the game Mike WIll and the rest of the receivers go wild.

Classic.  Calls us crybabies... but De'Angelo Hall not getting thrown out was a "travesty"?

You just gave away that you're not serious.

[Coburn1]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

Then NFL network and it's crew are stupid, Scott Reynolds and Raheem Morris.....all THIS stupid.    One of these days you morons will learn to read and listen and process.   Until then may god have mercy on your souls.   He's said it about 3 times already but you guys still keep going back to the markers instead of the BAD SPOT which is actually the only problem and the rest was simple confusion because the announcers and far side guys had no clue it was ruled a first down.   If Raheem really thought the spot was that bad and they were in the middle of being bent over he would have thrown the challenge flag but he didn't.   I guess you and snooki and the situation know best though so like I said keep going and stop trying to pull me back in.   Leave me out of your imaginary witch hunt.   Refs are stupid and horrible every week for damn near every team.  You all sound like Mike Shanahan.  Bunch of cry babies.   The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.   With him booted out of the game Mike WIll and the rest of the receivers go wild.

Still don't see where you explain how ten yards was gained on 1st down.

Can't explain that, huh?  Why not?

If I'm such an idiot... then explain it to me.

All the NFL has said was that it was marked a 1st down on the 2.  I get that.  But that logic is seriously flawed because the ball never made it to the 2.

He's right guys... the NFL said the call they made was right so it must be true!!!
Some people just absolutely love to gobble up the BS they're being spoon fed without doing any thinking or investigating themselves.
Game center actually tries to tell us they made it to the 2 and as you showed that would mean every person would be offsides on the next play
and that the ball would be a yard back.
http://www.joebucsfan.com/
There's a video, not with any good evidence on here but thought what Chris Carter said was great about poetic justice.

Oh.... and as for Raheem. Seriously how would he even know? He should be able to expect the chains would actually be right and doesn't have the benefit of a birds eye view with a nice line to be able to count that it's 9 yards. I sure as hell wouldn't notice if I was on the sideline, but it's obvious sitting in my chair in front of a screen. Not to mention I don't have to deal with everything he is calling the next play for the D.

[BuccinTex]

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.

Surely this isn't a serious post... you can't actually be THIS stupid... Or maybe you just can't count to ten.

Then NFL network and it's crew are stupid, Scott Reynolds and Raheem Morris.....all THIS stupid.    One of these days you morons will learn to read and listen and process.   Until then may god have mercy on your souls.   He's said it about 3 times already but you guys still keep going back to the markers instead of the BAD SPOT which is actually the only problem and the rest was simple confusion because the announcers and far side guys had no clue it was ruled a first down.   If Raheem really thought the spot was that bad and they were in the middle of being bent over he would have thrown the challenge flag but he didn't.   I guess you and snooki and the situation know best though so like I said keep going and stop trying to pull me back in.   Leave me out of your imaginary witch hunt.   Refs are stupid and horrible every week for damn near every team.  You all sound like Mike Shanahan.  Bunch of cry babies.   The real travesty is Hall not being thrown out of the game for laying hands on a ref.   With him booted out of the game Mike WIll and the rest of the receivers go wild.

I understand what your saying, but it wasn't the yellow line that was wrong, it was where the actual 1st down marker was placed.  If you actually count the yards on the screen, for some inexplicable reason, the officials set the 1st down marker only 9 yards down the field instead of 10.  At first I thought it was the yellow marker like everyone else, but after actually looking at someone mark it out, its obvious the marker was...uhm...misplaced.

Heres a link that really shows it well http://www.bucschat.com/showthread.php?27933-Doing-my-part-to-help-those-who-are-visual-impaired-CJ

Last response because honestly I don't need captain crunch over here popping a neck vein.    No one is saying they didn't screw up.   I'm saying, like everyone else besides bucs fans on the message boards.  Was that there is no conspiracy and five downs.  It was a bad spot and stupid placement of markers by fox and the crew on that side.   Read your own link even this guy agrees although he claims to be right simply because no one has shown him the other markers.   You can't actually claim something is true just because you don't have the evidence to prove it so yeah you guys just keep going on about it nothing matters come today.  Bucs still won. 



"Unless someone shows me that the near side posts were different AND official AND (somehow right despite video proof) then this looks to be an epic screw up by the officials and the support staff that could have cost our team a chance at a playoff run. We are VERY fortunate that a loss was not the result.

Even if the official thought it was close to a first down, how in the world was there no measure inside of two minutes on a drive of this magnitude?"

yes the challenge would have to come from the booth and it didn't.....because they knew just like Raheem knew that they had ruled it a first down.   Complain about the spot all you want I'll join you but that's where it ends.   They ruled it a first and not everyone knew about it.  That's all but please do keep spinning it into a conspiracy against one team.   Entertaining that way.