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ISLAND BUCS

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#60 : December 13, 2010, 07:26:33 PM

Buccin Tex: If you go back on the tape to the 1st down, it is very clear that the ball was spotted on the 12 years line. And watching the next 5 plays, it is clear
that Washington did not get to the 2 yd line.  So there never was a first down.  On the other hand if it was 2nd and 1/2 a yard, Wash might have run it right
up the middle, maybe twice if necessary, and scored that way.  It's hard to believe the next play would have been that throw-away fade pattern.  For all we know
maybe the 5 plays hapen in just the right way so we could win on the missed extra point.


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#61 : December 13, 2010, 07:57:24 PM

Buccin Tex: If you go back on the tape to the 1st down, it is very clear that the ball was spotted on the 12 years line. And watching the next 5 plays, it is clear
that Washington did not get to the 2 yd line.  So there never was a first down.  On the other hand if it was 2nd and 1/2 a yard, Wash might have run it right
up the middle, maybe twice if necessary, and scored that way.  It's hard to believe the next play would have been that throw-away fade pattern.  For all we know
maybe the 5 plays hapen in just the right way so we could win on the missed extra point.

They did try running and were stuffed the one time. By the time they threw the TD on 5th down there was only 9 seconds left and no timeouts so it's not likely things
would have changed much. Going for a 1 or 2 yard play take too much time. I get what you're saying though. We can only speculate, all we know is what SHOULD
have happened.

ryan24

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#62 : December 13, 2010, 10:53:03 PM


The ball wasn't placed on the 3. It's on the 2 1/2 yard line. I wasn't referring to anything else.

Prove it, and without referring to the blue line. We were able to prove where the first down should have been without using the yellow line. I gave a fair bit of evidence that supported it was on the 3 and that is what everyone else is reporting. Image function along with bold/italics doesn't seem to be working for some reason but please look at the photo on page 2 of 2nd down. Now the angle doesn't show you the ball, what you can see is the line judge straddling the line purposefully with his head down even. You also get a pretty good idea from where the natural line falls between where the two teams line up. Pretend the blue line isn't there.

This video shows the ball clearly about halfway between the 2 and 3 yd line.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cd70ba/Is-it-fourth-down-or-third-down

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

NotDeadYet

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#63 : December 14, 2010, 12:16:32 AM

   Wow; I was raging at the TV during the game as to why the Redskins got that 5th down play. Then I innocently accepted the FOX announcers explanation about the 1st down being achieved earlier. This is rather clear evidence of yet another bad spot going against us; not the first this season. I've seen opponents given extra yardage and seen us lose yardage on bad spots. Dang epidemic this year...

Coburn1

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#64 : December 14, 2010, 11:02:48 AM


The ball wasn't placed on the 3. It's on the 2 1/2 yard line. I wasn't referring to anything else.

Prove it, and without referring to the blue line. We were able to prove where the first down should have been without using the yellow line. I gave a fair bit of evidence that supported it was on the 3 and that is what everyone else is reporting. Image function along with bold/italics doesn't seem to be working for some reason but please look at the photo on page 2 of 2nd down. Now the angle doesn't show you the ball, what you can see is the line judge straddling the line purposefully with his head down even. You also get a pretty good idea from where the natural line falls between where the two teams line up. Pretend the blue line isn't there.

This video shows the ball clearly about halfway between the 2 and 3 yd line.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cd70ba/Is-it-fourth-down-or-third-down

Yeah that's a much better view and you are correct. So they were still off by 1/2 yard or about 1.5 feet which is still a pretty big screwup.

FlyingScorpion

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#65 : December 14, 2010, 11:16:59 AM


The ball wasn't placed on the 3. It's on the 2 1/2 yard line. I wasn't referring to anything else.

Prove it, and without referring to the blue line. We were able to prove where the first down should have been without using the yellow line. I gave a fair bit of evidence that supported it was on the 3 and that is what everyone else is reporting. Image function along with bold/italics doesn't seem to be working for some reason but please look at the photo on page 2 of 2nd down. Now the angle doesn't show you the ball, what you can see is the line judge straddling the line purposefully with his head down even. You also get a pretty good idea from where the natural line falls between where the two teams line up. Pretend the blue line isn't there.

This video shows the ball clearly about halfway between the 2 and 3 yd line.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cd70ba/Is-it-fourth-down-or-third-down

Yeah that's a much better view and you are correct. So they were still off by 1/2 yard or about 1.5 feet which is still a pretty big screwup.
Yup in a game of inches we lost a foot. starts inches short of the 12 has to end inches short of the 2. Ball gets spotted at the 2 1/2 and gets a 1st down the difference of about a foot. It was no harm so no foul I guess but what got me about this is the leagues explanation that almost ten feet is the same as ten feet. I'm officially done with this. (sarcasm)Maybe the refs should get together for another conference call(/sarcasm)

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CTGuyton

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#66 : December 14, 2010, 11:40:48 AM


The ball wasn't placed on the 3. It's on the 2 1/2 yard line. I wasn't referring to anything else.

Prove it, and without referring to the blue line. We were able to prove where the first down should have been without using the yellow line. I gave a fair bit of evidence that supported it was on the 3 and that is what everyone else is reporting. Image function along with bold/italics doesn't seem to be working for some reason but please look at the photo on page 2 of 2nd down. Now the angle doesn't show you the ball, what you can see is the line judge straddling the line purposefully with his head down even. You also get a pretty good idea from where the natural line falls between where the two teams line up. Pretend the blue line isn't there.

This video shows the ball clearly about halfway between the 2 and 3 yd line.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cd70ba/Is-it-fourth-down-or-third-down

Yeah that's a much better view and you are correct. So they were still off by 1/2 yard or about 1.5 feet which is still a pretty big screwup.

Actually, I still think the screw up was on the initial spot for the 1st down. It's a few inches shy of the 12, and assuming the official line to gain was the 2.5 which is evident by the second first being awarded at that spot, (and also explains the confusion of if it was on the 2 or 3, just depends on which way you round 2.5) then it should've been 1st and 10 from the 12.5. Now the pic that appears in this thread quite a bit shows the Center already in place. As a former center, I assure you, he moved the ball a little. He moved it forward a hair and tilted it a bit. So that will account for another couple inches.  I'm betting when the ref took his hands off the ball, it was just under 12.5 yards from the goal line.

But the key is.. everyone on the sideline knew it was a first down and had no reason to question it. The refs, who spot the ball, then look to the near sideline to judge the first or not, knew it was with out question. And either coach is allowed to ask for a measurement, it doesn't require a challenge. Rah didn't because he knew, the 2.5 yard line was good enough for the first.


ryan24

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#67 : December 14, 2010, 12:01:13 PM


The ball wasn't placed on the 3. It's on the 2 1/2 yard line. I wasn't referring to anything else.

Prove it, and without referring to the blue line. We were able to prove where the first down should have been without using the yellow line. I gave a fair bit of evidence that supported it was on the 3 and that is what everyone else is reporting. Image function along with bold/italics doesn't seem to be working for some reason but please look at the photo on page 2 of 2nd down. Now the angle doesn't show you the ball, what you can see is the line judge straddling the line purposefully with his head down even. You also get a pretty good idea from where the natural line falls between where the two teams line up. Pretend the blue line isn't there.

This video shows the ball clearly about halfway between the 2 and 3 yd line.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81cd70ba/Is-it-fourth-down-or-third-down

Yeah that's a much better view and you are correct. So they were still off by 1/2 yard or about 1.5 feet which is still a pretty big screwup.

The problem...I thought....was that the skins were given a generous spot to begin with (if you watch the officials actions after the catch by Alexander it is not the usual one guy running in to spot the ball rather they seemed to flip the ball around without anyone marking the spot)...and then a quick read of the chains was done without measuring. It's probably closer than many of us initially thought but there should have been a measurement. Reading from the middle of the field to the sidelines creates an optical illusion sometimes which can completely mislead either the crew or the guys on the sideline questioning the decision.

I still don't think the NFL, in it's explanation, understands what went on as there appeared to be multiple errors made simply in procedure by the officials.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

Runole

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#68 : December 14, 2010, 12:40:25 PM

Yes,  the Bucs won so it didn't matter.  However, I am completely baffled by those that continually are stating that no mistake was made by the officials?

Geesh!  Everyone makes mistakes why is it so hard for some to admit to it?   A first down is supposed to be by traversing 10 yards. That was not accomplished.
End of story!

ryan24

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#69 : December 14, 2010, 01:43:48 PM

Yes,  the Bucs won so it didn't matter.  However, I am completely baffled by those that continually are stating that no mistake was made by the officials?

Geesh!  Everyone makes mistakes why is it so hard for some to admit to it?   A first down is supposed to be by traversing 10 yards. That was not accomplished.
End of story!

Who's stating no mistake was made?

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

Snook

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#70 : December 14, 2010, 02:14:06 PM

Yes,  the Bucs won so it didn't matter.  However, I am completely baffled by those that continually are stating that no mistake was made by the officials?

Geesh!  Everyone makes mistakes why is it so hard for some to admit to it?   A first down is supposed to be by traversing 10 yards. That was not accomplished.
End of story!

Who's stating no mistake was made?


Uhhh.... the NFL. 


ryan24

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#71 : December 14, 2010, 04:50:15 PM

Yes,  the Bucs won so it didn't matter.  However, I am completely baffled by those that continually are stating that no mistake was made by the officials?

Geesh!  Everyone makes mistakes why is it so hard for some to admit to it?   A first down is supposed to be by traversing 10 yards. That was not accomplished.
End of story!

Who's stating no mistake was made?


Uhhh.... the NFL.

I think the poster was referring to other posters.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

ABuccsFan

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#72 : December 15, 2010, 12:26:26 AM

Problem with all your expert analysis snooki is that you're still looking at the UNOFFICIAL down markers.  They are unofficial because they put the ra-tards on that side of the field and sometimes they don't mark it properly....it was however marked and measured properly from the near sideline officially and both Raheem and the NFL say just a mistake that people are blowing out of proportion and are flat out wrong about.    You can watch that replay a million times from a million angles but you won't find one that shows the near side markers which are official.  Until then can everyone please just let it go and enjoy the win?   Seriously what the hell is wrong with Bucs fans these days.   First you complain about no wins then when they come it's not good enough you have to win in fashion and make a conspiracy out of a mistake.   Bottom line is the Bucs didn't play good enough to make that drive meaningless but they did play good enough to let the Skins piss it away.  I'll take it.  Wish the rest of you would too.

How many times must you hear that they screwed up on the spot on that far side and the line markers on fox were off because of it?   NFL network has beaten the story and explanation to death.....even they are moving on this morning.
Yeah, well you use your super sleuth knowledge and show me some video of even one Ref on that field that signaled a 1st down. Not one extended an outstretched arm in the direction of the endzone to signal a 1st down.

\"For a brief, shining, moment in history, a select breed truly lived free.\".....Unknown Author.
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