Steve White breakdown

[Biggs3535]

Steve White is a big fan of Ruud IMO.  I asked him once if he thought Ruud was a little soft and he was very offended by the question.  So no surprise he does not rip him often.

Yep.

I believe Steve wanted us to draft Rolando McClain this year. I don't think he's in love with Ruud....he just casts blame where it actually belongs. Ruud just happens to usually be doing what he's supposed to be doing, especially compared to the other guys on the team. So he doesn't get bashed by knowledgeable people.

People don't bash Ruud for being out of position, because he usually isn't.  What Ruud sucks at (and people like Stevie White don't talk about) is getting off of blocks and making a play in the run game.  It's nice that he is where he is supposed to be, but it doesn't matter if he can't make a play when the ballcarrier goes right beside him.

[FlyingScorpion]

I like Ruud but yeah it is frustrating that he cant get off of his blocks. He did get in the back field a few times even drew some double teams and made a TFL of about 5 yards but learn to shed blocks man. 

[Condor Bastadon]

Steve White is a big fan of Ruud IMO.  I asked him once if he thought Ruud was a little soft and he was very offended by the question.  So no surprise he does not rip him often.

Yep.

I believe Steve wanted us to draft Rolando McClain this year. I don't think he's in love with Ruud....he just casts blame where it actually belongs. Ruud just happens to usually be doing what he's supposed to be doing, especially compared to the other guys on the team. So he doesn't get bashed by knowledgeable people.

People don't bash Ruud for being out of position, because he usually isn't.  What Ruud sucks at (and people like Stevie White don't talk about) is getting off of blocks and making a play in the run game.  It's nice that he is where he is supposed to be, but it doesn't matter if he can't make a play when the ballcarrier goes right beside him.

Agreed that he sucks at getting off blocks. But if you've watched the Buccaneer defenses over the years, they thrive on swarming and gang-tackling. That happens by someone beating their man or engaging a blocker and setting an edge to force the ballcarrier inside to the rest of the defense.....or by forcing the ballcarrier to stretch it out wide and using our team speed to chase him down. To run a defense like that, you need LB's of the smaller, quicker variety....and obviously the drawback to that is that they're not as strong downhill as they are laterally. But the defense can and will work if everybody is doing their job and is where they're supposed to be. Ruud is where he's supposed to be the most often, by far. No, he isn't a Superman type LB that does it all himself by running through FB's and blowing up RB's, but he's a smart guy that is where he's supposed to be in this defense. If everybody else also is, then the D will work beautifully. Unfortunately, we've got some undisciplined LB's around him and an inconsistent D-line in front of him....so we get gashed quite a bit.

Also, the bolded is rarely true....Ruud doesn't have a problem making tackles when the ballcarrier is close to him. No, he doesn't blow guys up....but he's definitely making tackles when he gets the chance. His statistics support this.

[Biggs3535]

On the vast majority of the big runs on Sunday, the ballcarrier could pulled one of Ruud's luscious locks out.  He was always close to the play, but couldn't make it.

[FlyingScorpion]

On the vast majority of the big runs on Sunday, the ballcarrier could pulled one of Ruud's luscious locks out.  He was always close to the play, but couldn't make it.

Is that a little love hate thing you got going lol

[1sparkybuc]

Ruud will be back next year. Hayes won't.

[CBWx2]

Barrett Ruud = Shelton Quarles. Ruud haters always love to pump up Quarles like he was some kind of stud. He was just a good player. No more, no less. Ruud's numbers in 2008 blew Quarles Pro Bowl 2002 numbers out the water. Ruud finished 3rd to Patrick Willis and London Fletcher on the ballots that year, and many believed he deserved it more than Fletcher. In the Tampa 2, they are at least equal, although Ruud may actually be better because Quarles never had to QB the defense or step up to be a leader because Derrick Brooks did both.

Ruud's productivity took a dip when Raheem Morris became coach. Why have none of you Ruud haters stopped to think that the two things might be related? Morris does not use the MLB the same way that Kiffin did. It's extremely doubltful that Quarles, who was much smaller than Ruud, would have done any better against the run in Morris' defense.

[CBWx2]

Shelton Quarles 2002 stats:

113 tackles, 1 sack, 2 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 5 PD

Barrett Ruud 2008 stats:

137 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 6 PD

[acacius]

Ruud will be back next year. Hayes won't.

I think Ruud's being a free agent next year makes his being back next year a good deal less certain.  Certainly if he were under contract, I would expect there to be a perfectly good chance that the team would decide they had more pressing needs to fill.  But I can totally imagine him deciding to test the market this offseason, particularly since he expressed frustration that Penn got his extension, but he didn't.  I don't think that necessarily means that he'll be gone, but I think there's a non-trivial chance that someone will offer him more money than they Bucs want to spend on him.

As for Hayes, why wouldn't he be back next year?

[acacius]

Shelton Quarles 2002 stats:

113 tackles, 1 sack, 2 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 5 PD

Barrett Ruud 2008 stats:

137 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT, 6 PD

In fairness, while I think that the calibur of players that Quarles was playing with in 2002 helped him in terms of how good of a player he looked like, I think it also put something of a limit on his statistical opportunities. 

[Biggs3535]

Barrett Ruud = Shelton Quarles.

In the passing game, Ruud was/is probably better.  In the run game, it's not even close.  You can continue to bury your head in the sand if you want to, but it's really not even close as far as that's concerned.  Once Morris started using less and less of the T2, where the MLB was mostly running down the middle of the field, Ruud's value lessened.

I'm not a Ruud-hater, and was on your side of the argument before last season:

Ruud has been the starter for 2 seasons, so comparing apples to apples in the Tampa 2 @ MLB:

Hardy Nickerson: 4 Sacks, 2 Int, 4 FF, 0 FR, and 181 tackles (1996 & 1997)
Shelton Quarles: 4.5 Sacks, 2 Int, 0 FF, 0 FR, and 146 tackles (2002 & 2004 - only played 11 games in 2003; Played Sam 1999-2001)
Barrett Ruud: 3 Sacks, 4 Int, 4 FF, 4 FR, and 185 tackles (2007 & 2008)

Looks like Ruud has been better than both at dropping into coverage.  Nickerson has 4 total interceptions in 4 years as a Tampa 2 MLB.  Quarles had 2 total interceptions in 5 years as the MLB.  Ruud has 4 total interceptions in 2 seasons as a starter.

It looks like Ruud was better at everything except for getting to the QB.

Now, it's clear Morris is moving from that type of MLB and moving more towards a physical player.

[CBWx2]

Ruud will be back next year. Hayes won't.

I think Ruud's being a free agent next year makes his being back next year a good deal less certain.  Certainly if he were under contract, I would expect there to be a perfectly good chance that the team would decide they had more pressing needs to fill.  But I can totally imagine him deciding to test the market this offseason, particularly since he expressed frustration that Penn got his extension, but he didn't.  I don't think that necessarily means that he'll be gone, but I think there's a non-trivial chance that someone will offer him more money than they Bucs want to spend on him.

This is a likely scenario. Contrary to what many Bucs fans seem to think, there will likely be significant interest in Ruud if he and the Bucs don't come to a deal early. He gets along well with his teamates and is well respected in the locker room, but I'm not sure if Ruud will give the hometown discount or leave for greener pastures. If the Bucs don't fall in love with someone else, however, expect Ruud to be re-signed.

As for Hayes, why wouldn't he be back next year?

Hayes has had too many off field distractions, and his on field play hasn't really been enough to make him worth the distraction. If he gets suspended by the league for his latest infraction, he could be shown the door. I think at the very least, Hayes will get some competiton for his job next year, and could be sent to the bench.

[acacius]

Hayes has had too many off field distractions, and his on field play hasn't really been enough to make him worth the distraction. If he gets suspended by the league for his latest infraction, he could be shown the door. I think at the very least, Hayes will get some competiton for his job next year, and could be sent to the bench.

Yeah, I'm not saying he should necessarily be handed the starting job next year.  But I was under the impression he was still under contract.  He would, at worst, be an RFA.  Since his infraction fell more into the "dumb" than "evil" category (imo, at least), I don't think it would make sense to actually get rid of him.

[CBWx2]

In the passing game, Ruud was/is probably better.  In the run game, it's not even close.  You can continue to bury your head in the sand if you want to, but it's really not even close as far as that's concerned.  Once Morris started using less and less of the T2, where the MLB was mostly running down the middle of the field, Ruud's value lessened.

On one hand you say Quarles was better than Ruud against the run because Ruud is struggling when not in the Tampa 2. But Quarles never played anything but the Tampa 2, so how do you know that he would fare any better against the run in Morris' hybrid defense than Ruud is? Quarles was allowed to run free and make plays because he was shielded by having Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice in front of him and had Derrick Brooks lined up next to him. Ruud has never had the amount of complimentary players alongside him to take the pressure or focus off of him that Quarles did. As a result, Quarles never, EVER, faced the amount of O-lineman in his face that Ruud has had to over the last two seasons, nor was he forced to compensate for the poor play of the OLB's lined up next to him.

[Biggs3535]

On one hand you say Quarles was better than Ruud against the run because Ruud is struggling when not in the Tampa 2. But Quarles never played anything but the Tampa 2, so how do you know that he would fare any better against the run in Morris' hybrid defense than Ruud is? Quarles was allowed to run free and make plays because he was shielded by having Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice in front of him and had Derrick Brooks lined up next to him. Ruud has never had the amount of complimentary players alongside him to take the pressure or focus off of him that Quarles did. As a result, Quarles never, EVER, faced the amount of O-lineman in his face that Ruud has had to over the last two seasons, nor was he forced to compensate for the poor play of the OLB's lined up next to him.

It all goes back to that physical mentality.  Quarles had it, and Ruud will show it very, very little on the field.  He had one TFL vs. Washington where he shot his gap and made a play - but that was it.

Bottom line is, Ruud just isn't physical enough for the middle.  I think he could well on the outside.