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Blaze688

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« #15 : December 20, 2010, 09:49:07 AM »

Four choices: Offsetting penalties
No call
Call on Lions
Call on Bucs
Best call: No call. Second-best call: Offsetting. So they really blew it. Offender never turns around, no separation. Awful.

Offsetting penalties is the best call.  No call would've meant a touchdown for Tampa Bay, and there was some definite contact there.


cryptfiend

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« #16 : December 20, 2010, 09:52:42 AM »

That play happened literally right in front of my seats...im in row c, i had an awesome view of the play, better than the refs, and better than most people.

i can tell you this.  winslow did not push off.  very, very clearly.  right after this pic was taken, the DB had winslows arms/hands and winslow was trying to pull them back as the ball was coming in.  I'm not sure whether it should have been offensive PI...but i can tell you that winslow did  NOT push off...and that it definitely should have been defensive pass interference.  If winslow had been the defender on the play and nothing else was changed, i would have called defensive pass interference on winslow....but i was always under the impression that offensive players had a bit more leeway and actually had to push off to get the call.  he did NOT push off.

Blaze688

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« #17 : December 20, 2010, 09:54:23 AM »

Kellen was holding a defender in place, trying to keep him from making a play.  That is pass interference.

Now, I felt the defender was doing the same thing.  I think offsetting penalties would've been appropriate.  Oh well.


cryptfiend

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« #18 : December 20, 2010, 09:58:03 AM »

Kellen was holding a defender in place, trying to keep him from making a play.  That is pass interference.

Now, I felt the defender was doing the same thing.  I think offsetting penalties would've been appropriate.  Oh well.

thats not really accurate.  its more like winslow was trying to shake the the defender in order to free his hands.  the defender literally was holding winslows arms down.  winslow saw the ball coming in and was trying to free his hands to make the catch

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« #19 : December 20, 2010, 09:59:07 AM »

All Winslow did was pull his arms away from the defender. The defender did not get pushed and no separation was created. Another horse **CENSORED** call.

Amazing how people can view the same thing so differently.

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

Blaze688

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« #20 : December 20, 2010, 10:09:00 AM »

Again, you people shouldn't be complaining about a questionable call where two players were grappling in the corner of the end zone.  Be complaining about Mike Williams getting chopped on his fade route on the very next play.  It was as blatant -- maybe more -- than the Winslow call, and absolutely should've led to first-and-goal at the one.

... not that we could've gotten it in, anyway.


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« #21 : December 20, 2010, 10:13:37 AM »



Refs are hosing the Bucs any chance they get in big spots. This is Str8 BS here.

I once read a poll  concerning NFL fans: the Buccaneer fans are considered the biggest whiners in the league.

How is that even determined? DId they interview refs, players, other fans?


PWNASAURUS

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« #22 : December 20, 2010, 10:13:59 AM »

You got pictures of the next frames where Winslow pushed off before the ball arrived?
All Winslow did was pull his arms away from the defender.

This isn't even close to being true.  The push is what drew the flag.  They were both hand-fighting, but Winslow pushed off.  If he doesn't do that, they probably get a defensive PI because the DB isn't looking for the ball.

If Brandon Pettigrew does that to Ronde Barber in the opposite endzone with no call, this board would erupt.  It was a good call.  The non-call on the next play to MW19 was complete B/S, however.
I watched the replay over and over. Pushoff = separation and there was no push off or separation plus DB didn't look for ball just hung on. Next.


cryptfiend

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« #23 : December 20, 2010, 10:14:32 AM »

Again, you people shouldn't be complaining about a questionable call where two players were grappling in the corner of the end zone.  Be complaining about Mike Williams getting chopped on his fade route on the very next play.  It was as blatant -- maybe more -- than the Winslow call, and absolutely should've led to first-and-goal at the one.

... not that we could've gotten it in, anyway.

oh, im not 'not complaining' about that call.  that was obvious.  there is no argument about the williams no call...he was knocked on his ass before the ball got there.  im talking about the winslow play because it was right in front of me and i had a good vantage point to see it.  winslow didnt push, he tried to free his hands to make the catch, that is all.  he couldnt have pushed, his hands were too busy trying to get up into the air.

Biggs3535

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« #24 : December 20, 2010, 10:22:39 AM »

You got pictures of the next frames where Winslow pushed off before the ball arrived?
All Winslow did was pull his arms away from the defender.

This isn't even close to being true.  The push is what drew the flag.  They were both hand-fighting, but Winslow pushed off.  If he doesn't do that, they probably get a defensive PI because the DB isn't looking for the ball.

If Brandon Pettigrew does that to Ronde Barber in the opposite endzone with no call, this board would erupt.  It was a good call.  The non-call on the next play to MW19 was complete B/S, however.
I watched the replay over and over. Pushoff = separation and there was no push off or separation plus DB didn't look for ball just hung on. Next.

Go watch it again, then.  And this time, watch it objectively.


PWNASAURUS

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« #25 : December 20, 2010, 10:33:19 AM »

You got pictures of the next frames where Winslow pushed off before the ball arrived?
All Winslow did was pull his arms away from the defender.

This isn't even close to being true.  The push is what drew the flag.  They were both hand-fighting, but Winslow pushed off.  If he doesn't do that, they probably get a defensive PI because the DB isn't looking for the ball.

If Brandon Pettigrew does that to Ronde Barber in the opposite endzone with no call, this board would erupt.  It was a good call.  The non-call on the next play to MW19 was complete B/S, however.
I watched the replay over and over. Pushoff = separation and there was no push off or separation plus DB didn't look for ball just hung on. Next.

Go watch it again, then.  And this time, watch it objectively.
I did. Def PI.


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« #26 : December 20, 2010, 10:43:12 AM »

I once read a poll  concerning NFL fans: the Buccaneer fans are considered the biggest whiners in the league.

How is that even determined? DId they interview refs, players, other fans?

They read this board.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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« #27 : December 20, 2010, 11:17:40 AM »

The defender wasn't even looking at the ball and was grabbing Winslow, even if Winslow did push off it should have been called a Pass Interference on the Lions. At worst a no call.

Mike Williams by Xfactor32, on Flickr

TheChronicHotAir

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« #28 : December 20, 2010, 11:37:04 AM »

You got pictures of the next frames where Winslow pushed off before the ball arrived?
All Winslow did was pull his arms away from the defender.

This isn't even close to being true.  The push is what drew the flag.  They were both hand-fighting, but Winslow pushed off.  If he doesn't do that, they probably get a defensive PI because the DB isn't looking for the ball.

If Brandon Pettigrew does that to Ronde Barber in the opposite endzone with no call, this board would erupt.  It was a good call.  The non-call on the next play to MW19 was complete B/S, however.
I watched the replay over and over. Pushoff = separation and there was no push off or separation plus DB didn't look for ball just hung on. Next.

Pushoff = the attempt to pushoff, in their eyes.   
(the defender didn't  budge much) 

PI

the defender that had his hands on Winslow wasn't IMPEEDING Winslow <----just standing still
« : December 20, 2010, 11:40:58 AM TheChronicHotAir »


PWNASAURUS

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« #29 : December 20, 2010, 12:03:55 PM »

I did. Def PI.

Finally.  Now you understand why the yellow flag was on the field.  Not being emotional about these things do help.
No I said it was defensive PI not definetly PI on Winslow and the Detroit media agrees with me. Quote from Drew Sharp of the Detroit Free Press, "The breaks finally tilted in the Lions’ direction. Detroit can stop whining now about the controversial Johnson non-touchdown in the season opener. The refs hooked them up this time on an equally controversial call midway through the fourth quarter, when Tampa Bay tight end Kellen Winslow and Lions safety C.C. Brown tangled in the end zone. Winslow caught the pass, but officials wiped it away due to offensive pass interference. It was a badly blown call, because Brown kept his back to the ball, playing the man instead of the ball, and that’s defensive pass interference 99% of the time."

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