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dbucfan

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#30 : January 12, 2011, 08:10:12 AM

No, you don't make such a move - dline is far more difficult to improve than safety.  getting an effective UT is very tough.  Adding DEs this year will hopefully improve the defensive unit - not simply the front 7

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

JasonOfthetower

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#31 : January 12, 2011, 09:05:15 AM

If we went by one season's worth of stats - Ronde Barber would have been released after his rookie season. Played in one game (which he didn't start) and was inactive pretty much the rest of the season. Many called him a bust as a third round pick.

Warren Sapp would also have been cut. Tackles weren't an official stat back in his rookie season (at least I can't seem to find anywhere that has them...maybe someone else can help with that), but he started just 8 games, appeared in all 16 but managed only 3 sacks.

Meanwhile, Santana Dotson, Wayne Haddix and Michael Clayton would be on their way to Canton.

Maybe we should allow for a larger sample size before we decide who's more valuable than who.

: January 12, 2011, 09:10:47 AM JasonOfthetower


acacius

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#32 : January 12, 2011, 11:08:15 AM

Warren Sapp would also have been cut. Tackles weren't an official stat back in his rookie season (at least I can't seem to find anywhere that has them...maybe someone else can help with that), but he started just 8 games, appeared in all 16 but managed only 3 sacks.

Profootballreference says 17 tackles, 10 assists.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SappWa00.htm

TBayXXXVII

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#33 : January 12, 2011, 11:54:45 AM

If you only consider stats for this year, I would trade McCoy, Price and Lewis for Ndamukong Suh. That probably would've been enough for Detroit to trade picks. I think we'll come out OK in the long run though.

+1, i think we will too, i'm not knocking McCoy, just wasn't ready to draft him last year. We see McCoy needs help around him to shine but Suh is BEASTIN all alone in detriot. sure he has OK players around him, but he made that defense do a complete 180 single handly. even Berry almost notched 100 tackles his rookie season which is a big deal.

Detroit in 2009:


Total yards per game allowed - 392.1 (dead last)

Points allowed per game - 30.9 (dead last)

Yards per play allowed - 6.1 (dead last)

1st downs allowed per game - 20.8 (30th)

Detroit in 2010 (A.S., After Suh)


Total yards per game allowed - 343.6 (21st)

Points allowed per game - 23.1 (19th)

Yards per play allowed - 5.5 (22nd)

1st downs allowed per game - 20.0 (24th)

Complete 180 is a bit of a stretch, sir. But he did beast out and they did improve.


Tampa in 2009:


Total yards per game allowed - 365.6 (27th)

Points allowed per game - 25.0 (27th)

Yards per play allowed - 5.6 (24th)

1st downs allowed per game - 20.2 (29th)

Tampa in 2010 (A.M., After McCoy)

Total yards per game allowed - 332.7 (17th)

Points allowed per game - 19.9 (9th)

Yards per play allowed - 5.4 (18th)

1st downs allowed per game - 19.2 (17th)

I think we improved well over last year.

Something you MIGHT want to consider...
Detroit Strength of Schedule - 6th
Bucs Strength of Schedule - 21st

Total yards per game allowed: Detroit jumped 11 spots (48 yard improvement) / Bucs 10 (33 yard improvement)
Points allowed per game: Detroit jumped 13 spots (10 pt improvement) / Bucs 18 (5 pt improvement)
Yards per play allowed: Detroit jumped 10 spots (0.6 yard improvement) / Bucs 6 (0.2 yard improvement)
1st downs allowed per game: Detroit jumped 6 spots (0.8 improvement) / Bucs 12 (0.8 yard improvement)

In a nutshell, the Lions had a much bigger improvement with a much harder schedule.  I'm not saying that next year things won't or can't equal out, but the future is looking brighter for the Lions.
: January 12, 2011, 12:02:47 PM TBayXXXVII

Garv

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#34 : January 12, 2011, 11:59:27 AM

Consider this.........

There is no WAY the Buccaneers, IF given the chance, would trade Gerald McCoy away for a SAFETY!
Come on now. THINK how this defense is being built........

Sometimes I......

We are all here because we are NOT all there.....
As always, GO BUCS!!!

TBayXXXVII

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#35 : January 12, 2011, 12:03:36 PM

Consider this.........

There is no WAY the Buccaneers, IF given the chance, would trade Gerald McCoy away for a SAFETY!
Come on now. THINK how this defense is being built........

Sometimes I......

Yeah, the Bucs made the right choice.  I'm happier with McCoy than I'd be if the Bucs had Berry.

Lombardi_Stacks

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#36 : January 12, 2011, 01:13:19 PM

Ok, the question was would you trade McCoy for Berry, an we have gotten mixed responses which is good. But let me ask this question, is their anyone ( OT, CB, LB, etc. ) in the top ten that you would reconsidered drafting over McCoy?

BucMyLife

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#37 : January 12, 2011, 01:19:27 PM

If you only consider stats for this year, I would trade McCoy, Price and Lewis for Ndamukong Suh. That probably would've been enough for Detroit to trade picks. I think we'll come out OK in the long run though.

+1, i think we will too, i'm not knocking McCoy, just wasn't ready to draft him last year. We see McCoy needs help around him to shine but Suh is BEASTIN all alone in detriot. sure he has OK players around him, but he made that defense do a complete 180 single handly. even Berry almost notched 100 tackles his rookie season which is a big deal.

Detroit in 2009:


Total yards per game allowed - 392.1 (dead last)

Points allowed per game - 30.9 (dead last)

Yards per play allowed - 6.1 (dead last)

1st downs allowed per game - 20.8 (30th)

Detroit in 2010 (A.S., After Suh)


Total yards per game allowed - 343.6 (21st)

Points allowed per game - 23.1 (19th)

Yards per play allowed - 5.5 (22nd)

1st downs allowed per game - 20.0 (24th)

Complete 180 is a bit of a stretch, sir. But he did beast out and they did improve.


Tampa in 2009:


Total yards per game allowed - 365.6 (27th)

Points allowed per game - 25.0 (27th)

Yards per play allowed - 5.6 (24th)

1st downs allowed per game - 20.2 (29th)

Tampa in 2010 (A.M., After McCoy)

Total yards per game allowed - 332.7 (17th)

Points allowed per game - 19.9 (9th)

Yards per play allowed - 5.4 (18th)

1st downs allowed per game - 19.2 (17th)

I think we improved well over last year.

Something you MIGHT want to consider...
Detroit Strength of Schedule - 6th
Bucs Strength of Schedule - 21st

Total yards per game allowed: Detroit jumped 11 spots (48 yard improvement) / Bucs 10 (33 yard improvement)
Points allowed per game: Detroit jumped 13 spots (10 pt improvement) / Bucs 18 (5 pt improvement)
Yards per play allowed: Detroit jumped 10 spots (0.6 yard improvement) / Bucs 6 (0.2 yard improvement)
1st downs allowed per game: Detroit jumped 6 spots (0.8 improvement) / Bucs 12 (0.8 yard improvement)

In a nutshell, the Lions had a much bigger improvement with a much harder schedule.  I'm not saying that next year things won't or can't equal out, but the future is looking brighter for the Lions.

Thanks, but I didn't say that we improved more than they did.

Something you could consider, is that it's probably harder to improve from where we were (not dead last) then it is for Detroit (dead last in many stats).

As for your last sentence, I don't know what to tell you other than....Agree to disagree. Our future is brighter IMO, we have our skill position set and a big healthy kid at QB who was Top 6 in passer rating in his second season.

The quest for .500 begins...

Watchman

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#38 : January 12, 2011, 01:49:38 PM

No I wouldn't do that trade.  I'm of the philosophy that everything starts in the trenches.  I would rather have talent on the d-line than in the secondary, because I think a good d-line is going to improve the secondary much more than a good secondary is going to improve the d-line.

I'm still optimistic about McCoy, and I can't find fault with the pick at this point.  At the time I would have seriously questioned taking a S at #3.

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#39 : January 12, 2011, 02:23:20 PM


+1, that's why their is so much to like about this young Tampa team, but we can't afford to pick another kid that needs 2 yrs plus to blossom. He's gonna have to come in an contribute because we're knockin on the door again. But I think we could have gone either way, building on a secondary that's above the middle of the pack or reconstructing that D-line. Either way our success in 2010 started with Freesus, got rolling with Williams and ended Blount.

Why do I keep seeing this sentiment on these boards? It's almost like we've already forgotten how we got here.These Bucs have just now gotten competitive again but this team is still the youngest team in the league. People say we've built a nucleus to compete in the playoffs for the next 5-7 years, but we are not remotely done building that nucleus. Perhaps people have gotten spoiled by all these rookies contributing right away. People are acting like we didn't place 3rd in the division.... I'm as excited as all hell for this team but the Koolaid must really be flowing if anyone thinks we're a Superbowl team right now.

My point is, Rah and Dom have earned the benefit of the doubt. Let them draft whoever they want.

Bucsfan x

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#40 : January 12, 2011, 02:50:47 PM

It must blow the OP's mind that the Chargers didn't go 16-0.

TBayXXXVII

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#41 : January 12, 2011, 03:20:49 PM

Something you could consider, is that it's probably harder to improve from where we were (not dead last) then it is for Detroit (dead last in many stats).

Actually, I think it's quite the opposite.  The Bucs had a similar or worse improvement in 2 categories (PPG & 1st downs), than the Lions and jumped higher in the rankings.  There is a greater gap at the bottom (and top), than there is in the middle.  The smallest improvement can allow you to jump multiple teams where as at the bottom, you need to have a bigger improvement to make up a lot of ground.

As for your last sentence, I don't know what to tell you other than....Agree to disagree. Our future is brighter IMO, we have our skill position set and a big healthy kid at QB who was Top 6 in passer rating in his second season.

I was speaking specifically about the defense, not the overall team.  Though, I don't know that our offense has that much more than Detroits.  Ofcourse, that is hinging on Staffords health and potential.  If he turns out to be the franchise QB that we hope Freeman turns out to be, then I think their offense is in better shape than ours as well... for now.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying our future is murky and theirs is great.  But, IF everyone is healthy, (Lions: Stafford & Best/K. Smith and Bucs: Talib and McCoy/Price), I think the Lions are likely to be in better shape.
: January 12, 2011, 03:31:30 PM TBayXXXVII

BucNY

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#42 : January 12, 2011, 03:41:29 PM

McCoy is who we got and after having the guy you would have a very hard time convincing me to take anyone else. You could make a case for suh but I think McCoy has more of an upside for us and our defensive scheme.

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#43 : January 12, 2011, 04:09:01 PM

all things being equal I'd take Suh over him no questions asked.  And so would most on here. McCoy is going to be a solid player I think.  Will he be a pro bowl caliber player I don't know.  But that's what I expect out of a top 3 pick.


anterrabae33

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#44 : January 12, 2011, 05:06:36 PM

Yeah let's trade McCoy and Price for Berry. Look at it this way, he will be getting a load of tackles because every run would end up in our secondary.
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