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DanTurksGhost

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#15 : January 12, 2011, 11:01:14 AM

Man, I really have to disagree with Dal on Hardware. He and I must have been watching a different guy. Ruud is a shadow of what Nickerson was for this team.

dalbuc

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#16 : January 12, 2011, 11:16:56 AM

Man, I really have to disagree with Dal on Hardware. He and I must have been watching a different guy. Ruud is a shadow of what Nickerson was for this team.

You really must have been watching a different guy. Nickerson was a flyweight guy. He was the best coverage middle linebacker I've ever seen other and his precognition on calling the defense was top notch but a hard core run stuffer, no, not in the least and not a fierce tackler. Ruud isn't as good as Nickerson at anything but people seem to think we've had Ray Lewis type guys in here and really Ruud is just another guy in the same vein of what we've always had it just looks worse w/o the big time talent around it.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#17 : January 12, 2011, 11:20:22 AM

No, I never said Nickerson was Ray Lewis, but Nickerson was better at everything than Ruud is.

Feel Real Good

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#18 : January 12, 2011, 11:25:03 AM

I don't think anyone thinks Nickerson was Levon Kirkland nor does anyone expect Ruud's replacement to be that big of a hammer. But there's A LOT of room between Ruud and Kirkland. It's not just one or the other.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#19 : January 12, 2011, 12:03:51 PM

Man, I really have to disagree with Dal on Hardware. He and I must have been watching a different guy. Ruud is a shadow of what Nickerson was for this team.

I think everyone watched a different Nickerson than Dal.


notabucsfan

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#20 : January 12, 2011, 12:14:58 PM

If Ruud was anywhere close to what Nickerson and Quarles were when it came to physicality or LOS play he would be a definite pro bowler.. Its not that they were great at that its just Ruud is that bad  when it comes to that part of the game.

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#21 : January 12, 2011, 12:31:44 PM

No, I never said Nickerson was Ray Lewis, but Nickerson was better at everything than Ruud is.

He's better but the same style of play. Nickerson here now would draw the same crying and griping.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#22 : January 12, 2011, 12:32:50 PM

Man, I really have to disagree with Dal on Hardware. He and I must have been watching a different guy. Ruud is a shadow of what Nickerson was for this team.

I think everyone watched a different Nickerson than Dal.

You actually think he was a LoS playmaker? I mean I'm sure the stats are long gone but at the time it was well noted that Nickerson made an obscene % of his plays 3+ yards downfield.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#23 : January 12, 2011, 01:05:15 PM

I think Nickerson's physical play is what stands out the most.  I don't know if he was a better T2 coverage MLB than Ruud, but he was most definitely more physical at the PoA..


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#24 : January 12, 2011, 01:57:33 PM

Hardy was a great leader. I'm still waiting for Rudd to be accountable for SOMETHING.

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#25 : January 12, 2011, 02:54:12 PM

Ruud is the same player as Nickerson and Quarles guys. The MLB here hasn't changed for years other than the ill conceived Duncan and Webster experiments -- and those 2 guys DID hit hard and play physical.
The problem for Ruud is that right now he is the best player on the front 7, yes he is, whereas Quarles and Nickerson were the 4th best (at best) player in their front 7 so Ruud's "flaws" are easier to see.
Nickerson never made a tackle at the LOS, please. He was the king of the fall on the pile downfield "tackle". The running joke was that the Tampa scorers gave him a tackle if he looked at runner to get him that "214" that put him in the pro bowl (note: this is also why the tackle totals PR sites from the Bucs are so out of whack vs the NFL's more neutrally created tackle stats). Quarles also wasn't a physical player at the LoS.
I like both guys and I like them MORE than Ruud but Ruud's problem is less that he's no good than the has to be Batman when he's more Robin and that makes him look worse than he is..
You really must have been watching a different guy. Nickerson was a flyweight guy. He was the best coverage middle linebacker I've ever seen other and his precognition on calling the defense was top notch but a hard core run stuffer, no, not in the least and not a fierce tackler. Ruud isn't as good as Nickerson at anything but people seem to think we've had Ray Lewis type guys in here and really Ruud is just another guy in the same vein of what we've always had it just looks worse w/o the big time talent around it.
Quote from: dalbuc link=topic=1277619.msg1310466#msg1310466 date=1294853504
He's better but the same style of play. Nickerson here now would draw the same crying and griping.
[/quote
You actually think he was a LoS playmaker? I mean I'm sure the stats are long gone but at the time it was well noted that Nickerson made an obscene % of his plays 3+ yards downfield.

Hardy Much Greater than Ruud. He was an enforcer. Almost more important than anything else for a MLB. Brought attitude to the Bucs D.

: January 12, 2011, 03:07:27 PM PWNASAURUS


Detrimental

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#26 : January 12, 2011, 03:04:25 PM

The problem for Ruud is that right now he is the best player on the front 7, yes he is, whereas Quarles and Nickerson were the 4th best (at best) player in their front 7 so Ruud's "flaws" are easier to see.
Which 3 starters on the 1993 team were better than Nickerson?

DE Chidi Ahanotu
DT Mark Wheeler
DT Santana Dotson
DE Eric Curry

OLB Broderick Thomas
MLB Hardy Nickerson
OLB Barney Bussey
And that is what makes Hardy Nickerson so special.

CBWx2

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#27 : January 12, 2011, 05:46:11 PM

Don't agree Dal - both Quarles and Nickerson could get off of blocks and make tackles at or near the LOS.  I don't see that ability to be nearly as strong with Ruud.  And while Quarles might have been the 4th best in the front 7, I don't think it is accurate to say Nickerson was - as Sapp and Brooks were not near the level they were when Shelton was MLB.

Nickerson never made a tackle at the LOS, please. He was the king of the fall on the pile downfield "tackle". The running joke was that the Tampa scorers gave him a tackle if he looked at runner to get him that "214" that put him in the pro bowl (note: this is also why the tackle totals PR sites from the Bucs are so out of whack vs the NFL's more neutrally created tackle stats). Quarles also wasn't a physical player at the LoS.
I like both guys and I like them MORE than Ruud but Ruud's problem is less that he's no good than the has to be Batman when he's more Robin and that makes him look worse than he is..

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...except I like Ruud more than Quarles. I respect what he was able to do given his workman-like path to the NFL, but Shelton Quarles might be the most overrated Buc of all time.


CBWx2

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#28 : January 12, 2011, 06:52:38 PM

The problem for Ruud is that right now he is the best player on the front 7, yes he is, whereas Quarles and Nickerson were the 4th best (at best) player in their front 7 so Ruud's "flaws" are easier to see.
Which 3 starters on the 1993 team were better than Nickerson?

DE Chidi Ahanotu
DT Mark Wheeler
DT Santana Dotson
DE Eric Curry

OLB Broderick Thomas
MLB Hardy Nickerson
OLB Barney Bussey
And that is what makes Hardy Nickerson so special.

Actually, that 1993 front 7 was better than pretty much any that Ruud has been on. Sacks are a good indication of a D-Line's disruptiveness. The only season Ruud has played behind a line that got more than 20 sacks is 2007, his first season as a full time starter. Our starting 4 linemen had 16 combined sacks in 2008, 13 combined sacks in 2009, and 12 combined sacks in 2010.

In 1993 and 1994, the two years prior to Brooks and Sapp's arrival, and basically the only two years Nickerson was our best front 7 player, the Bucs ranked 23rd and 26th against the run respectively. It wasn't until 1997 that the Buccaneers would become a top 10 defense against the run. That was when Brooks and Sapp were just hitting their prime, and in that season, Warren Sapp, Brad Culpepper, Chidi Ahanotu, and Reagan Upshaw combined for 36.5 sacks. Until we see Ruud behind that kind of D-Line, you can't make a completely fair judgement about how good he could be.


Feel Real Good

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#29 : January 12, 2011, 07:04:11 PM

The problem with the Quarles comparison is we already had 3 dominating players in the front 7 when he started playing. We just needed someone to be gap responsible and not screw things up. Right now we have zero dominating players in the front 7. We still need to find our new 3 dominating players so it makes no sense to remove the possibility of finding a dominating player at MLB by financially committing to a non-dominating player. You never know where your next dominating player is going to come from. It's like playing poker. You don't know what card you're going to get next, so you want to put yourself in position to be able to make use of as many different cards as possible.
: January 12, 2011, 07:12:50 PM Feel Real Good

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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