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BucMyLife

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#30 : January 19, 2011, 02:13:30 AM

I think you missed that I said our 1st rounder this year would be in the trade. If we trade Josh Johnson and a 1st rounder to move up 13 spots in this draft, then Johnson would pretty much have negative value

Look up the points sheet, good sir. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670

Our first this year (20th) = 850 points

our 4th this year (20th-ish) = 62 points

Josh Johnson (160th pick overall in 2008) = 28.4

2012 4th rounder = 62 points

Total 1002.4 points

SF's first pick (7th) = 1500 points

We would still have a 497 points deficit, according to the chart.

But lets see what that difference in points equals....40th pick or 8th pick in the second round. And if you add JJ's 28.4 points it equals to 5th pick in the second round. Unless SF sees JJ as a second rounder, calue wise, I don't know if they would agree.

Sooooooooo, a 2012 1st (which if we do well, will be a late rounder) or a 2012 2nd rounder instead of the 2012 4th that you suggested would be a somewhat even trade, according to the trade value chart that most teams use. This is where I was coming from.



: January 19, 2011, 02:15:21 AM bullg8rdaddy

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Lombardi_Stacks

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#31 : January 19, 2011, 02:33:10 AM

I don't think Frisco lets us anywhere near their 1st round pick. They have extra picks in the 4th and 6th round. Their picks in those two rounds would be a deal I could live with.

As for a backup, the fact is, the coaches are fond of Carpenter, so the guy must be doing something right. I know he is tough as nails. He got tore up at Arizona State behind a terrible O-Line and still posted some good digits against top notch competition. Of course I would feel better with Johnson under center if Freeman went down, but he's gone in 2012 any way you slice it. Get some picks for the guy, and trust the coaches in regards to Carpenter.

+1, i think some of you guys are undervaluing JJ. forget about swaping this pick for that one because instead gaining a pick some of you have us giving up one FOR A PLAYER THEY NEED.  Unless someone here tells me we can get some trade value out of TJackson as well, even with his four game suspension, then we don't make a move for their 1st pick. it's to costly. but hands down, no doubt in my mind, JJ keeps them from drafting a QB in the first two rounds. therefore he's worth a 2nd round pick without swaping anything. if they want him, cough up that 2nd rounder simple an plain!

BucMyLife

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#32 : January 19, 2011, 02:50:03 AM

Most realistic. ^^^

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tbb345

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#33 : January 19, 2011, 02:51:27 AM

bullg8rdaddy,
They have to value JJ as a 3rd rounder. How about JJ, 1st and 4th 2011, 3rd 2012 for 49ers 1st round pick in 2011. I think that is fair. Also those point charts aren't completely accurate and tend to award way too many points to the top 10 picks

Larry Brackins

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#34 : January 19, 2011, 02:52:22 AM

I'm not for sure about this, but considering Jackson has to apply for reinstatement to the league, I don't think he can be traded.


#SaveUsJohnnyFootball

BucMyLife

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#35 : January 19, 2011, 04:37:39 AM

bullg8rdaddy,
They have to value JJ as a 3rd rounder. How about JJ, 1st and 4th 2011, 3rd 2012 for 49ers 1st round pick in 2011. I think that is fair. Also those point charts aren't completely accurate and tend to award way too many points to the top 10 picks

Now were are getting somewhere, bro. :)

 I realize that the chart may or may not be used by teams for various reasons, but it's a good starting point/reference, IMO.

Cheers.

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Nicodemus

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#36 : January 19, 2011, 04:43:15 AM

Points for pick places means nothing really. If a team wants a player they will trade no matter what. The value is in what the team trading for the player thinks he is worth to them, Gaines Adams wasn't worth too much around the league until Rod Marinelli turned up at Chicago and then his value rose. To the bears he was worth a second rounder, to everyone else in the league he wasn't worth that at all. The same has to be said of Charlie Whitehurst for the Seahawks, no one else would have given that trade but the Seahawks saw it as good value.

We can debate points for trade places as much as we want, but if the 49ers want JJ they won't care about points for draft spots, they will just want the player they want.

BucMyLife

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#37 : January 19, 2011, 04:55:05 AM

Gotcha. Understood.

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Skull and Bones

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#38 : January 19, 2011, 07:54:25 AM

I think you guys are going to be disappointed by what we get for him if a trade does get worked out.  It's not like the 49ers would be acquiring him to be their starting QB, although he would probably have a chance to compete for it.


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#39 : January 19, 2011, 08:15:36 AM

We keep JJ unless we really get a deal we can't turn down. We need a back up QB and JJ is a pretty good back up. I would like to see him get a shot to start some place but i don't want to lose this guy.

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Skull and Bones

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#40 : January 19, 2011, 08:21:35 AM

considering he has never won a game at the NFL level and didn't play significant snaps last year you can't even say he is a good backup.  He is an unknown.


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#41 : January 19, 2011, 08:26:25 AM

We keep JJ unless we really get a deal we can't turn down. We need a back up QB and JJ is a pretty good back up. I would like to see him get a shot to start some place but i don't want to lose this guy.

The Bucs are almost certain to lose him next year anyway. Get what you can for him this year.

BucNY

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#42 : January 19, 2011, 08:29:06 AM

considering he has never won a game at the NFL level and didn't play significant snaps last year you can't even say he is a good backup.  He is an unknown.

He hasn't even come close to winning a game in the NFL, but look at the defense he was playing with! They surely didn't help him out much. Certainly people with less talent have won games so there is much more to it than the W-L ratio. I do think that JJ has more value to San Fran than other teams. They want to move back to the traditional west coast offense and that, if i'm not mistaken, is the offense JJ ran in college and the offense that I consider him best for. He seems to have the ability to be an accurate passer but not close to the arm strength that Freeman has.

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BucNY

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#43 : January 19, 2011, 08:31:15 AM

We keep JJ unless we really get a deal we can't turn down. We need a back up QB and JJ is a pretty good back up. I would like to see him get a shot to start some place but i don't want to lose this guy.

The Bucs are almost certain to lose him next year anyway. Get what you can for him this year.

I really wonder though. Certainly he won't demand the type of money that a veteren back up would cost. He may leave to try and get his shot but I don't think many teams would want to steal him as a back up. I feel like that if he does leave it will be for SF.

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JDouble

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#44 : January 19, 2011, 08:40:46 AM

I think you guys are going to be disappointed by what we get for him if a trade does get worked out.  It's not like the 49ers would be acquiring him to be their starting QB, although he would probably have a chance to compete for it.

If they want a young QB that can run to back up Alex Smith, they already have Troy Smith.

They won't be giving up anything for JJ unless they plan on him winning the starting job.

Draft Aaron Donald


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