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spartan

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#15 : January 20, 2011, 05:10:06 PM

The only current affordable insurance option I have is from my employer.  Unfortunately the coverage my employer has elected to provide doesn't suit my needs well.  However going outside my employer drastically increases premium cost.

That is the way it has always been unfortunately. Your Employer can get his coverage cheaper because he is part of a larger pool. Without knowing exactly what you mean by "needs", bit tough to interpret your answer too well. A lot of people confuse needs with wants.

But, if I understand you correctly what you are in essence saying is that it works for you because under Obamacare you are going to get somebody else to pay for your healthcare costs?

spartan

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#16 : January 20, 2011, 05:21:15 PM


Maybe when right wing nut jobs quit comparing everything Obama does to Hitler, and quit shooting people, and bombing abortion clinics, and protesting at military funerals, and idolizing hate mongers like Glenn Beck, Bill O'reilly, and Rush Limbaugh, and burning the Quran, and acting like everyone that isn't white, straight, and christian is the enemy ....maybe then people will quit using the term "Right Wing Nutjob"

And you would consider Olbermans and Krugmans response to the Tuscon shooting to be the eptiome of moderate and reasoned response? Using the term "teabagger" isn't offensive, just like the implication that everybody not of a liberal bent is a white racist?

Take a deep breath, then take another look at your post and tell me who is being inflammatory?

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#17 : January 20, 2011, 06:19:30 PM

"rightwing nuts"


These two little words are what causes your credibility to be lost for a moment of self satisfaction.

 your right as an American to have free health care.

I'm sorry - exactly what right do you have to ask other people to fund your health care costs?

Edit:  "Ask" is the wrong word to use.  More like "confiscate money from others to find your health care costs?"

Got to love the mindset of the typical government moocher.
: January 20, 2011, 06:21:13 PM afitzgerald66


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kevabuc

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#18 : January 20, 2011, 06:21:51 PM

"rightwing nuts"


These two little words are what causes your credibility to be lost for a moment of self satisfaction.

Maybe when right wing nut jobs quit comparing everything Obama does to Hitler, and quit shooting people, and bombing abortion clinics, and protesting at military funerals, and idolizing hate mongers like Glenn Beck, Bill O'reilly, and Rush Limbaugh, and burning the Quran, and acting like everyone that isn't white, straight, and christian is the enemy ....maybe then people will quit using the term "Right Wing Nutjob"

By the way, if all the idiots hadn't let the right talk them into believing the government health care was the devil, we wouldn't have this bill. We'd have one universal health care program where everyone is covered. It would be your right as an American to have free health care. My dad was Air Force and now my wife is, so I've had government health care my entire life. I gotta say it's pretty freaking nice to never have to worry about premiums or even paying monthly fees for health insurance. It's free and it's good. Too bad half the country believes any garbage and misinformation FOX News puts out there. The only reason the Republicans don't want universal health care is because the health insurance companies are one of their biggest financial supporters, along with oil, tobacco, and gun companies.

It's sad. I'm glad I at least get to keep my universal worry free health care, but it's sucks that so many other Americans will never experience it.

Generalize much? You are lumping quite a large portion of the population into a very small fraction of truly radical idividuals that you quite easily classify as right wing. I have never seen where violence is a major tenent of conservatism, or what is more accurately termed liberlism, the classical definition, not today's version. The poeple you listed are more appropriately termed, "just nutjobs" , plain and simple. There are nutjobs on all sides of the political spectrum but they remain a small minority of all.  To lump everyone into such a small unit and then to use such terms only marginalizes one's credibility, in my opinion, it doesn't add anything to any debate.

Calling people idiots doesn't make you look any smarter, but it is a very good tactic to use when facts and reason come up short.

Healthcare is not a right that man can give, if it is then it is also a right that man can withhold, and thus, a legal right. It could then be withheld at the whim of the government if an individual does not meet certain standards. Then, that right becomes coersion.  It is not a natural right, one that is granted upon birth if you were born alone, in a natural state, without the benefit of a social structure. Healthcare requires others to serve the individual, which can then become a form of slavery, or force labor dictated and predicated upon some arbitrary regulatory board of planners.  Healthcare is nevertheless, available to all, at no cost already, it is the law. Is there a better system for our healthcare system then for a government run version, absolutely, however, the true failures of the system have not even been addressed let alone acted upon. We have not had a truly competitive system of healthcare in this country since WW II, we have had a third party payee system of benefits that does nothing to discourage rising costs, if fact it encourages them. Government does nothing efficiently or cost effective, so why do you think it would now with healthcare. You healthcare may be free, but there is still a cost to taxpayers, and for people in the service a well deserved benefit that truly is what the Federal government is required to do by securing all of our states' borders.

You also might want to look at donations to the Democratic party from all those companies you listed, the government and both parties are truly connected at the hip by these businesses yet you want to provide the government even more control.

Here's a start;

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/28/health-industry-donations-favor-democrats-over-republicans/

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64420A20100505


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#19 : January 20, 2011, 06:26:10 PM

Maybe when right wing nut jobs quit comparing everything Obama does to Hitler, and quit shooting people, and bombing abortion clinics, and protesting at military funerals, and idolizing hate mongers like Glenn Beck, Bill O'reilly, and Rush Limbaugh, and burning the Quran, and acting like everyone that isn't white, straight, and christian is the enemy ....maybe then people will quit using the term "Right Wing Nutjob"

Holy hell, you're all over the place.



By the way, if all the idiots hadn't let the right talk them into believing the government health care was the devil, we wouldn't have this bill.

So those that aren't in favor of even more government regulations and control are idiots, and weren't able to come to those conclusions on their own?  How condescending.



But, if I understand you correctly what you are in essence saying is that it works for you because under Obamacare you are going to get somebody else to pay for your healthcare costs?

Yay for fairy dust and shirking personal responsibilities on other people!


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#20 : January 20, 2011, 06:27:09 PM

"rightwing nuts"


These two little words are what causes your credibility to be lost for a moment of self satisfaction.

 your right as an American to have free health care.

I'm sorry - exactly what right do you have to ask other people to fund your health care costs?

Edit:  "Ask" is the wrong word to use.  More like "confiscate money from others to find your health care costs?"

Got to love the mindset of the typical government moocher.

Typical. So worried you might give more than you receive. So quick to point the finger and assume others just want to be lazy and get something for free.

In the military everyone gets a small amount taken out of their check every two weeks. For my wife, me, and my daughter we have about $40 a month taken out. Everyone chips in a little and the health care is always there for anyone who need it. It could have been the same for all of America. You might look at this as paying for other people's health care, but that's your hang up, not mine.


spartan

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#21 : January 20, 2011, 07:04:40 PM

By the way, if all the idiots hadn't let the right talk them into believing the government health care was the devil, we wouldn't have this bill. We'd have one universal health care program where everyone is covered. It would be your right as an American to have free health care. My dad was Air Force and now my wife is, so I've had government health care my entire life. I gotta say it's pretty freaking nice to never have to worry about premiums or even paying monthly fees for health insurance. It's free and it's good. Too bad half the country believes any garbage and misinformation FOX News puts out there. The only reason the Republicans don't want universal health care is because the health insurance companies are one of their biggest financial supporters, along with oil, tobacco, and gun companies.

It's sad. I'm glad I at least get to keep my universal worry free health care, but it's sucks that so many other Americans will never experience it.

Couple of points leap out here.

1. Your healthcare is not and never has been free. It is paid for by the Taxpayer. $80 a month isn't going to pay for your healthcare let alone a families. Not begrudging the military one bit considering what we ask them to do, but at least let's be honest about it.

2. Show me where in the Constitution where it says you have a right to somebody else's time and property? Because that is what you are saying. I will work on the premise you know that "free" healthcare isn't free, therefore I ask you how much is it your right to have? An hour? An hour a day maybe? What about 10 hours a day? As much as you deem is necessary until you feel better? I'm sure there is a word for that but let's move because the next "rational" argument is the Medical professional is paid well for their service. I agree, they are, but not with YOUR money and if you don't think you are taking anything of value away from the Medical Professional, you are then taking money away from somebody else. How much then is it your righto take from someone without their permission? $100? $1000 a month? All of it if that is what is required for you to exercise your "right?"

3. What makes the exercising of your right more important than somebody else?

There is one, and only one right in the Constitution that involves taking something of value, and that is their time, from another citizen and that is the right to be judged by your peers. That is SPECIFICALLY outlined. Every other right detailed in the Constitution involves utilizing the time and property of one and only one person; the person exercising that right.

What you are actually saying is that you believe your are ENTITLED to free health care and that is a completely different argument.
: January 20, 2011, 07:07:36 PM spartan

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#22 : January 20, 2011, 07:09:29 PM

Jdouble - it is fiscally impossible for $40/a month to cover health care expenses regardless of system.  The fact is you contribute $40 a month towards the cost of you, your wife's and daughter's healthcare, the balance, and by far the larger sum, it the contribution made by taxpayers through the Federal Government.  There is no savings/economy of scale that can be offered that would enable such coverage to be possible. 

To show this to you in a different light - the average vaginal birth in this country, while varying by locale, is between 9 and 17,000.  Your annual health care premium contributes $480.  So - before folks get ill, I would suspect sterilization would perhaps be a starting point for your thoughts on healthcare costs and availability.  J/K - but dang guy - you have to think this one through a bit more.




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Fitz66

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#23 : January 20, 2011, 07:21:28 PM

"rightwing nuts"


These two little words are what causes your credibility to be lost for a moment of self satisfaction.

 your right as an American to have free health care.

I'm sorry - exactly what right do you have to ask other people to fund your health care costs?

Edit:  "Ask" is the wrong word to use.  More like "confiscate money from others to find your health care costs?"

Got to love the mindset of the typical government moocher.

Typical. So worried you might give more than you receive. So quick to point the finger and assume others just want to be lazy and get something for free.

In the military everyone gets a small amount taken out of their check every two weeks. For my wife, me, and my daughter we have about $40 a month taken out. Everyone chips in a little and the health care is always there for anyone who need it. It could have been the same for all of America. You might look at this as paying for other people's health care, but that's your hang up, not mine.

How about I take care of me and my family before taking care of the government moochers?  How's that sound?

I might look at it as paying for other peoples health care?  Is there any other way to look at it?


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#24 : January 20, 2011, 07:45:50 PM

The only current affordable insurance option I have is from my employer.  Unfortunately the coverage my employer has elected to provide doesn't suit my needs well.  However going outside my employer drastically increases premium cost.

That is the way it has always been unfortunately. Your Employer can get his coverage cheaper because he is part of a larger pool. Without knowing exactly what you mean by "needs", bit tough to interpret your answer too well. A lot of people confuse needs with wants.

But, if I understand you correctly what you are in essence saying is that it works for you because under Obamacare you are going to get somebody else to pay for your healthcare costs?

Under Obamacare I won't have to rely on my employer as my only source of discounted coverage.  With an insurance exchange I will at least have an option to shop around.


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#25 : January 20, 2011, 08:15:10 PM

Some other interesting points about Military health care. ZERO chance of ever suing anyone. I know a lady, she was a dancer who wanted to get her varicose veins removed. She went in for surgery and woke up missing a leg. Charts got mixed up. She tried  sue, she wasn't even military, her husband was, he was told to get a clue and the case dismissed. So, cost savings #1, no lawsuits and no malpractice insurance. Now that doctor might face military disciplinary actions, but you don't get a dime.

Cost savings #2. The pay that every single one of those doctors get in military hospitals is paid no matter what. That Captain that is a surgeon get paid just like the Captain walking though Baghdad on patrol. That corpsman that took your blood, is also an active duty soldier gets paid no matter what. Doctors, nurses and corpsmen don't get bonuses for certain surgeries. If they do one or 100  operations, they are paid the same. That is a fixed cost that is paid by the defense department and not consider in the health care costs.


Which response do we get this time? Butthurt? Needs medical treatment? Or the all time favorite, \"Drama Queen\"

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#26 : January 20, 2011, 08:50:38 PM

The only current affordable insurance option I have is from my employer.  Unfortunately the coverage my employer has elected to provide doesn't suit my needs well.  However going outside my employer drastically increases premium cost.

That is the way it has always been unfortunately. Your Employer can get his coverage cheaper because he is part of a larger pool. Without knowing exactly what you mean by "needs", bit tough to interpret your answer too well. A lot of people confuse needs with wants.

But, if I understand you correctly what you are in essence saying is that it works for you because under Obamacare you are going to get somebody else to pay for your healthcare costs?

Under Obamacare I won't have to rely on my employer as my only source of discounted coverage.  With an insurance exchange I will at least have an option to shop around.

It will more than likely be more expensive than your Employers plan, but you can shop around now. Why you think think the Insurance Exchange is going to be any different?

FWIW I know the answer but I am curious to know if you do.

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#27 : January 20, 2011, 09:06:59 PM

The only current affordable insurance option I have is from my employer.  Unfortunately the coverage my employer has elected to provide doesn't suit my needs well.  However going outside my employer drastically increases premium cost.

That is the way it has always been unfortunately. Your Employer can get his coverage cheaper because he is part of a larger pool. Without knowing exactly what you mean by "needs", bit tough to interpret your answer too well. A lot of people confuse needs with wants.

But, if I understand you correctly what you are in essence saying is that it works for you because under Obamacare you are going to get somebody else to pay for your healthcare costs?

Under Obamacare I won't have to rely on my employer as my only source of discounted coverage.  With an insurance exchange I will at least have an option to shop around.

It will more than likely be more expensive than your Employers plan, but you can shop around now. Why you think think the Insurance Exchange is going to be any different?

FWIW I know the answer but I am curious to know if you do.

Shop around where? People still can't get insurance from out of state. Thats just stupid. That alone would drive prices down.

Which response do we get this time? Butthurt? Needs medical treatment? Or the all time favorite, \"Drama Queen\"

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#28 : January 20, 2011, 09:28:39 PM

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47831.html

Don't worry, Morgan.  Harry Reid hopes to save it.  By NOT LETTING IT GO TO A VOTE IN THE SENATE!!!!  To hell with what Americans think.
Like it really matters anyway...Insurance companies have made a fortune off of HealthCare insurance the past year...OBD

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/19/chris-van-hollen/rep-chris-van-hollen-says-insurance-company-profit/


Fitz66

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#29 : January 20, 2011, 09:54:11 PM

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47831.html

Don't worry, Morgan.  Harry Reid hopes to save it.  By NOT LETTING IT GO TO A VOTE IN THE SENATE!!!!  To hell with what Americans think.
Like it really matters anyway...Insurance companies have made a fortune off of HealthCare insurance the past year...OBD

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/19/chris-van-hollen/rep-chris-van-hollen-says-insurance-company-profit/

Isn't that why you build a business.....to earn a profit?  Since when did profits become so evil in this country?


Those evil big corporations.....how many people do they employ?


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