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Chief Joseph

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#15 : January 22, 2011, 12:26:00 PM

Some of us, me, constantly spoke out against the former regime's constant acquisition of has-beens and never-was's along with no clear plan for the future.
The congratulatory celebrations are a bit premature.
Only for those who won't or refuse to congratulate.

And for those of us who don't hand out huge bonuses to the current regime, simply because they're not the previous regime. When required to stand on their own, well... let's wait until they finish in the top half of the division before we have a party.

Any intelligent observer can see that this team is in a better state than at any point over the past 5-6 yrs.

Well, anyone who disagrees with you couldn't be intelligent, could they? +1 Sepebucs.

The Glazers saw fit to blow up the mess that was the former regime, kudos to them.

Judging one regime favorably based on the fact that they aren't the previous regime isn't exactly the mark of an "intelligent observer." It's the mark of someone who is letting their emotions interfere with their intellect.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#16 : January 22, 2011, 12:35:58 PM

Judging one regime favorably based on the fact that they aren't the previous regime isn't exactly the mark of an "intelligent observer." It's the mark of someone who is letting their emotions interfere with their intellect.

No "hate" involved.

I'm judging the current regime on the vast improvement they've made in such a brief period of time. On what they've been able to do with the youngest team in the league, after being ravaged by injury. The former regime had much more time and left the team in worst shape than when their union was consummated.

If you can't see that, than perhaps you are the one letting emotion interfere with your intellect.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#17 : January 22, 2011, 12:36:32 PM

Some of us, me, constantly spoke out against the former regime's constant acquisition of has-beens and never-was's along with no clear plan for the future.
The congratulatory celebrations are a bit premature.
Only for those who won't or refuse to congratulate.

And for those of us who don't hand out huge bonuses to the current regime, simply because they're not the previous regime. When required to stand on their own, well... let's wait until they finish in the top half of the division before we have a party.

Any intelligent observer can see that this team is in a better state than at any point over the past 5-6 yrs.

Well, anyone who disagrees with you couldn't be intelligent, could they? +1 Sepebucs.

The Glazers saw fit to blow up the mess that was the former regime, kudos to them.

Judging one regime favorably based on the fact that they aren't the previous regime isn't exactly the mark of an "intelligent observer." It's the mark of someone who is letting their emotions interfere with their intellect.

In this case, no. 

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#18 : January 22, 2011, 12:46:19 PM

I'm very happy that they're doing well again. But it really IS premature because ...
1. The fanbase is as divided as ever.
2. The attendance is ridiculously low.
3. The team didn't win a playoff game and didn't make the playoffs.
4. There are plenty of holes to fill.
5. The next step is the toughest.
If the Bucs go 9-7 next season, then about 8-8, then about 9-7 again (all feasible), can we say the approach was a success?
1. The ownership has to spend SOME money to give the perception that they're trying to finish the deal, not just in it for money.
2. MD needs more good drafts. He's off to an incredible start. But keep it going.
3. MOST significantly, the Bucs need to say HEALTHY. I can't stress this enough. Adams' problems were obviously health related. Caddy, Buenning....
If Freeman, MW, Briscoe, Benn, Grimm, McCoy, Price stay healthy and develop, the next 5-7 years could be incredible. But to gloat now shows a bit of hubris. We're close, but not quite there yet!

In Verner We Trust

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#19 : January 22, 2011, 12:48:00 PM

At no point have you seen me type that we are "there".... but I sure as hell prefer where we are as opposed to where we've been.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

leeroybuc93

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#20 : January 22, 2011, 12:50:34 PM

I'm very happy that they're doing well again. But it really IS premature because ...
1. The fanbase is as divided as ever.
2. The attendance is ridiculously low.
3. The team didn't win a playoff game and didn't make the playoffs.
4. There are plenty of holes to fill.
5. The next step is the toughest.
If the Bucs go 9-7 next season, then about 8-8, then about 9-7 again (all feasible), can we say the approach was a success?
1. The ownership has to spend SOME money to give the perception that they're trying to finish the deal, not just in it for money.
2. MD needs more good drafts. He's off to an incredible start. But keep it going.
3. MOST significantly, the Bucs need to say HEALTHY. I can't stress this enough. Adams' problems were obviously health related. Caddy, Buenning....
If Freeman, MW, Briscoe, Benn, Grimm, McCoy, Price stay healthy and develop, the next 5-7 years could be incredible. But to gloat now shows a bit of hubris. We're close, but not quite there yet!

I don't think anyone is saying we're world beaters now, simply that the current approach is working.  It's obvious.  If we're 8-8 in 3 years then we can say maybe it didn't work, but with all the evidence we have right now, to say the plan isn't going well is absurd. 

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#21 : January 22, 2011, 12:52:22 PM

It's the mark of someone who is letting their emotions interfere with their intellect.

This is fairly ironic.


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#22 : January 22, 2011, 12:53:12 PM

THIS TEAM NEEDS VETERAN LEADERSHIP!!!!

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Chief Joseph

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#23 : January 22, 2011, 01:05:57 PM

It's the mark of someone who is letting their emotions interfere with their intellect.

This is fairly ironic.

Very well, Biggs, please explain how I'm letting my emotions interfere.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#24 : January 22, 2011, 01:08:19 PM

Of course it's going well, leeroy. But there's a big difference between ''going well'' and saying the approach was right. The end justifies the means. And it's amazing to me how the previous regime's flaws are exaggerated. The Bucs weren't terrible for five or six years. In fact, they won two division titles in the six years after the Super Bowl. Some are revisionists on what we SHOULD have done and what we did. And some are now assuming that this structure will automatically guarantee great seasons EVERY year. Well, if we're very very lucky that will be the case, but look at a team like the Ravens; even they had some off seasons. The Pats had an 11-5 season, but missed the playoffs. We had a very good 11-5 team in 2005. If you're happy that that team lost then you need to re-examine your fan loyalty. And many are STILL glad because it feeds their agenda.
I want the Bucs to win PERIOD. But objectively we had two very good coaches and neither could do it all: Dungy could build here, but couldn't finish here. Gruden finished here, but couldn't build it up again. Raheem is being asked to do BOTH. If he can finish this off, it will be the greatest coaching achievement in the history of this franchise.
But now isn't the time for gloating. It's time for ownership to step up. Don't tease us and fail now.

In Verner We Trust

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#25 : January 22, 2011, 01:12:04 PM

I'm very happy that they're doing well again. But it really IS premature because ...
1. The fanbase is as divided as ever.
2. The attendance is ridiculously low.

What does that have to do with the Glazers plan and if it's working or not? Screw the fans who wont go to the games because they don't like the owners, they miss Gruden or hate Morris.
Low attendance next year will be because of the fair weather, bandwagon Tampa fans and not the Glazers, MD or Morris.

3. The team didn't win a playoff game and didn't make the playoffs.

And? So what? We made progress and we need to make more progress next year.

4. There are plenty of holes to fill.

Disagree. Some holes to fill. Not plenty.

5. The next step is the toughest.
If the Bucs go 9-7 next season, then about 8-8, then about 9-7 again (all feasible), can we say the approach was a success?

Why focus on the negative "what ifs?" You sound like Cyber. We can deal with that IF we ever get to that point. What if we go 10-6, 11-5 or 12-4? I'm not going to worry about
something that hasn't happened.

1. The ownership has to spend SOME money to give the perception that they're trying to finish the deal, not just in it for money.

Besides getting to the cap floor, why do they HAVE to spend some money if we keep winning and the young players keep developing? To make certain
fans happy? Once again, screw those fans. The 40,000+ diehards will keep supporting the team.

2. MD needs more good drafts. He's off to an incredible start. But keep it going.

Obviously. That goes for every team, every year.

3. MOST significantly, the Bucs need to say HEALTHY. I can't stress this enough. Adams' problems were obviously health related. Caddy, Buenning....

Same for every team.

If Freeman, MW, Briscoe, Benn, Grimm, McCoy, Price stay healthy and develop, the next 5-7 years could be incredible. But to gloat now shows a bit of hubris. We're close, but not quite there yet!

Why shouldn't fans gloat and be happy with what they saw? What does that hurt except the feelings of a few posters on here who were/are negative 24/7? I hope they choke on the
success we had this year and success we're going to have going forward. And if I'm wrong and we take a few steps back? So what?

So far, the approach has been right and many teams envy what we did.


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#26 : January 22, 2011, 01:14:30 PM

To quote Gene Deckerhoff...."You go, Joe"

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

ufojoe

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#27 : January 22, 2011, 01:16:00 PM

And some are now assuming that this structure will automatically guarantee great seasons EVERY year.

Who here has said that? Quote them. I'm being optimistic but I'm not saying great seasons are guaranteed. Anybody else here saying that?

But now isn't the time for gloating. It's time for ownership to step up. Don't tease us and fail now.

Why isn't now the time for gloating? Why does that bother you so much? Is it going to affect the way the team approaches the 2011 season?

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#28 : January 22, 2011, 01:19:47 PM

Perception is what done on the field, not how much money the Glazers spend.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

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#29 : January 22, 2011, 01:25:02 PM

It's the mark of someone who is letting their emotions interfere with their intellect.

This is fairly ironic.

Very well, Biggs, please explain how I'm letting my emotions interfere.

The whole "bottom half of the division" rationalization is a good start.  This completely ignores the fact that the team is in the top half of the league, and exposes an agenda.

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