Kiper 2005 Re-draft

[GameTime]

As a top 5 pick I would have to say caddy has been a disappointment.  He has had a nfl career, but nothing like what you expect from the top of the draft.

[Blaze688]

I can't believe I wasted my time reading this.  Lets just move on to your hatred of John Gruden and Bruce Allen.

And whats with this starting 50 games BS.  You have to be far beyond a huge disappointment to start 50 games in the NFL.  You fail at logic.

Jesus Christ, it's Jon Gruden.  And you're a moron if you think Butch Woolfolk, Charles Alexander, John Cappelletti, and the like were successful NFL players.  They all started more than 50 games, and they were all miserable failures despite their longevity.  You can't tell me that Cadillac's 612 rushing yards per season average is what we we're expecting when we drafted him in 2005.

Stop arguing with me.  You're clearly out of your league.  And you're seriously embarrassing yourself.

[jbear]

I take issue with the idea that seems to be the rage with all the kiddies of hypercritically judging the players.  Barret Ruud sucks!, Davin Joseph Sucks!, Caddy Sucks!, everybody sucks who isn't an all pro.  I might someday call Caddy a slight disappointment but not while he's on my team and more than that, being a teamleader of this young team. 

There is a big difference between a Mike Clayton and a Caddilac WIlliams and while a lot of it has to do with intangible things you can't deny that the Caddy helped this team win games this season.  Five years after the draft.

[jbear]

I can't believe I wasted my time reading this.  Lets just move on to your hatred of John Gruden and Bruce Allen.

And whats with this starting 50 games BS.  You have to be far beyond a huge disappointment to start 50 games in the NFL.  You fail at logic.

Jesus Christ, it's Jon Gruden.  And you're a moron if you think Butch Woolfolk, Charles Alexander, John Cappelletti, and the like were successful NFL players.  They all started more than 50 games, and they were all miserable failures despite their longevity.  You can't tell me that Cadillac's 612 rushing yards per season average is what we we're expecting when we drafted him in 2005.

Stop arguing with me.  You're clearly out of your league.  And you're seriously embarrassing yourself.

How old are you seriously.  He didn't even play almost 2 full seasons because of injury and you give me 612 rushing yards /season.  Its clear what you were expecting when we drafted him and it puts you back in the kiddie pile.  Fans who've been around a while don't go expecting huge careers from players because we drafted them in the first round.  All teams miss more than the hit out of the park.   Again I take issue with your tone and the hypercritical and childish way you evaluate players. "Miserable failures", "Huge busts"  I didn't know we were talking about Ryan Leaf here. 

You gonna confirm your thoughts about Jon or what.

[Feel Real Good]

There is a big difference between a Mike Clayton and a Caddilac WIlliams and while a lot of it has to do with intangible things you can't deny that the Caddy helped this team win games this season.  Five years after the draft.

One may have a good attitude and one not a good attitude, but at the end of the day you get the same result because neither have the talent you need out of your 1st round picks if you ever want to win in the NFL.

[Skull and Bones]

Let me ask this, was it smart for Seattle to pick an OLB at #4 in Aaron Curry?  Despite the fact he hasn't lived up to his billing the team had to guarantee him $30 million.  4-3 OLB aren't worth that kind of money unless they are HOFers.  Was drafting Calvin Johnson at #2 a better pick than taking Joe Thomas?  Sure he's a pretty good player but whether it's his fault or not he was suppose to be the greatest WR prospect ever and 4 years later he isn't even top 5 in the league.  Mike Williams rookie stats are almost as good as his were and this was his best year.  CJ probably makes over $10 million a year where MW makes what $300,000 or so.  I stand by my pass rushers, QBs, and LTs being the only positions from a dollar sense to draft at the top.  And none of these rookies that haven't proven themselves in the league are worth the money but thats the system in place and you got to make the best of it.

[Feel Real Good]

Fans who've been around a while don't go expecting huge careers from players because we drafted them in the first round.  All teams miss more than the hit out of the park.   

If you ever want to be a successful franchise, you have to expect more out of your 1st round picks. The Bucs wouldn't have won the Super Bowl if they picked Tyrone Wheatley instead of Warren Sapp and Matt O'Dwyer instead of Derrick Brooks.

[Skull and Bones]

if Rich McKay had his way we could of  had Mike Mamula and multiple super bowls.

[dalbuc]

How old are you seriously.  He didn't even play almost 2 full seasons because of injury and you give me 612 rushing yards /season.  Its clear what you were expecting when we drafted him and it puts you back in the kiddie pile.  Fans who've been around a while don't go expecting huge careers from players because we drafted them in the first round. 

Whoa, whoa whoa. I think you've lost your bearing here.

Do I expect every R1 player to be a hit? No, because teams miss all the time but you also don't look at what Caddy has produced - 3.8 ypc, 20 TD's and 2 game changing runs in 6 years and think, well we sure got something out of that R1 pick. Teams miss on R1 picks and Caddy is what one of those misses looks like. Very few guys totally wash out of the league. I mean hell David Carr is still lingering about the league, think he's a good R1 pick as well?

[jbear]

Fans who've been around a while don't go expecting huge careers from players because we drafted them in the first round.  All teams miss more than the hit out of the park.   

If you ever want to be a successful franchise, you have to expect more out of your 1st round picks. The Bucs wouldn't have won the Super Bowl if they picked Tyrone Wheatley instead of Warren Sapp and Matt O'Dwyer instead of Derrick Brooks.

I'm talking as a fan not as GM or Coach which none of us are.  I'd never say that Caddy turned out to be the best pick but he's probably already had about an average career for a first rounder and thats just on starts and stats.  Take the intangibles and game winning plays he had for us this year.  When you watch the games and don't just go on stats you have to give him credit for being valuable to us this season with two game winning scores and severl big plays in the recieving game including 46 receptions. 

I don't like seeing know everything fans throw around phrases like "Big disappointment" about a fan favorite player who's still a big contributor to our success.  I realise he's had a very average career.

[jbear]

How old are you seriously.  He didn't even play almost 2 full seasons because of injury and you give me 612 rushing yards /season.  Its clear what you were expecting when we drafted him and it puts you back in the kiddie pile.  Fans who've been around a while don't go expecting huge careers from players because we drafted them in the first round. 

Whoa, whoa whoa. I think you've lost your bearing here.

Do I expect every R1 player to be a hit? No, because teams miss all the time but you also don't look at what Caddy has produced - 3.8 ypc, 20 TD's and 2 game changing runs in 6 years and think, well we sure got something out of that R1 pick. Teams miss on R1 picks and Caddy is what one of those misses looks like. Very few guys totally wash out of the league. I mean hell David Carr is still lingering about the league, think he's a good R1 pick as well?

I don't think I've lost my bearings at all.  I may have been a little over the top in picking a fight and I'm guilty of subconsiously fishing (a bit) but to me he's not a BIG disapointment.  I would have liked more surely but as things go, hindsight is 20/20 and I'm happy we've had him here.

And no, even considering my love of the guy I wouldn't draft him again at that spot so take that for what its worth.   

[Blaze688]

How old are you seriously.  He didn't even play almost 2 full seasons because of injury and you give me 612 rushing yards /season.

What?  Injuries don't play a part in a running back's failures?  Did Ki-Jana Carter make a bunch of Pro Bowls on potential?

Its clear what you were expecting when we drafted him and it puts you back in the kiddie pile.

No, it puts you in the completely retarded pile.  It puts me in the same pile as everyone else.  Is it wrong to think that a fifth overall pick should contribute 1,000 yards a year?  More than a handful of touchdowns a season?  Carnell wasn't drafted to average 3.8 yards per carry.  He was drafted to give the franchise a top running attack.  He failed.  Miserably.  Not only did he not spearhead our elite rushing attack, but he has the worst average-per-rush of any starting running back in the last six years.

Does it make him a waste of human life?  No.  Does it make him a disappointment?  Without a doubt.

Fans who've been around a while don't go expecting huge careers from players because we drafted them in the first round.

If you draft a guy in the top 32, you're expecting him to make a Pro Bowl or two.  You don't spend $10 - $70 million on a guy because, hey, he might contribute here-and-there.

All teams miss more than the hit out of the park.

We missed.

Again I take issue with your tone and the hypercritical and childish way you evaluate players. "Miserable failures", "Huge busts"  I didn't know we were talking about Ryan Leaf here.

When you're drafted top five, you're brought in to change the fortunes of the franchise.  Period.  Carnell Williams failed, and you're the only person on the planet who doesn't think he qualifies as a disappointment.  It sounds like he's your favorite player, and your posts are obviously clouded by your bias.  If you browse my posting history, you won't find my "hypercritical evaluations" about any other Buccaneer.  And I'm the first to admit, Carnell had his best season in 2010.  I've even gone as far to say I'd like him back next year to reprise his role.

But he wasn't drafted to catch passes and carry the ball eight times a game.  He was drafted to be the guy who tops the rushing charts year-in and year-out.

You gonna confirm your thoughts about Jon or what.

I have no problem with Gruden.  I think, after 2008, it was time for a change, and I disagreed with his schemes and personnel choices.  But overall, he was an okay dude.

[Hate]

Everyone likes to bash the Caddy pick but it wasn't a bad pick at the time, heck he won rookie of the year and helped get us to the playoffs.

Chaz, he was rookie of the year because his competition sucked. When u have some time, compare his stats to MJD's rookie yr..... and he was 4th in the voting.

[Hate]

Carnell hasn't been average since his first few games.

[Blaze688]

sure never was the same after his rookie year but it's hard for me to believe that he wouldn't of been a pretty good player had he not had all those injuries.

Carnell played 32 games before he blew his knee.  He averaged 3.8 yards per carry.  Omitting that brief comeback before his second blowout, he's played 32 games after his injuries.  He's averaged 3.75 yards per carry in those games.

I think he's the same running back he's always been, regardless of the knee injuries.  I respect the hell out of him for his perseverance, though.