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JDouble

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#15 : February 01, 2011, 09:53:52 AM

I think we should be including Robert Quinn in these conversations. I see his stock dropping on quite a few sites.

http://newsite.draftnasty.com/football/position_list/?list=DE&year=2011


Feel Real Good

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#16 : February 01, 2011, 09:57:31 AM

When you draft guys for their physical tools you get Sabby Piscatelli. I'm not saying Houston is no good, I actually love the guy, but the "better physical tools" argument is not a good one. Good teams draft football players, not athletes.

You admit Kerrigan is better technique wise and would probably make a bigger immediate impact and that's really where it ends. You draft a guy for what he has done and can do, not for what he might do in the future. In the NFL potential translates to "not good now"
Not true at all or else we'd have Jimmy Clausen instead of Josh Freeman. You absolutely draft prospects with the upside to be dominant players. College film can lie. Not everything translates to the NFL. But this is all moot anyways, because through their junior seasons Houston and Kerrigan have near equal production and probably near equal measurables.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#17 : February 01, 2011, 11:22:00 AM

Do we really want to draft Justin "Jack" Houston?

Guy just turned 22, but he looks 55. He'll be out of the league in 3 years due to old age.



JDouble

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#18 : February 01, 2011, 11:36:24 AM

When you draft guys for their physical tools you get Sabby Piscatelli. I'm not saying Houston is no good, I actually love the guy, but the "better physical tools" argument is not a good one. Good teams draft football players, not athletes.

You admit Kerrigan is better technique wise and would probably make a bigger immediate impact and that's really where it ends. You draft a guy for what he has done and can do, not for what he might do in the future. In the NFL potential translates to "not good now"

Not true at all or else we'd have Jimmy Clausen instead of Josh Freeman. You absolutely draft prospects with the upside to be dominant players. College film can lie. Not everything translates to the NFL. But this is all moot anyways, because through their junior seasons Houston and Kerrigan have near equal production and probably near equal measurables.

Freeman was on a crappy team with little talent and he carried them every week. In his sophomore and junior year combined he threw for over 6k yards, 38 TDs and rushed for another 18 TDs. Plus Rah was there in person as the DC and saw what Freeman had to offer. He was drafted for what he had done and could do...not what he might do.

You draft guys with potential in the mid to late rounds. In the first and second you take guys that have already shown they have what it takes.

College tape doesn't lie. It's just that only some scouts know what to look for. I think the Bucs have a few guys over there that know what to look for.


Detrimental

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#19 : February 01, 2011, 12:02:32 PM

The Kerrigan fanboys you will be the diehards until he busts. So no matter who you put in a vs thread the answer will always be the most overrated player in the draft, Ryan Kerrigan.

I actually like Justin Houston a lot and I really don't see how anybody can take Kerrigan over Houston at #20. Houston has a much higher potential, much quicker off the snap, and is capable of dropping back in coverage. Not to mention he dominated the SEC, he's got pass rush moves and he's been coached by the same guy that coached DeMarcus Ware. Kerrigan dominated the Big 10 but none of you all realize how PATHETIC the talent level is. The only good decent LT in the Big 10 was a sopohmore at Iowa and he didn't even play because he was hurt. He DID get a sack last year vs LT Indiana prospect that went to the Rams Safford, but that's it.
: February 01, 2011, 12:06:21 PM Detrimental

chad1336

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#20 : February 01, 2011, 12:03:52 PM

Technique wise, Kerrigan is probably more advanced right now at getting to the quarterback, but Houston has the better physical tools and as far as intangibles, and motor, he's got that too.


When you draft guys for their physical tools you get Sabby Piscatelli. I'm not saying Houston is no good, I actually love the guy, but the "better physical tools" argument is not a good one. Good teams draft football players, not athletes.

You admit Kerrigan is better technique wise and would probably make a bigger immediate impact and that's really where it ends. You draft a guy for what he has done and can do, not for what he might do in the future. In the NFL potential translates to "not good now"

Saying Houston has more of a motor than Kerrigan is just wrong.
Where did I say that Houston has more of a motor than Kerrigan?
And what makes Kerrigan a football player and Houston not one?  He sure looks like a football player to me.  He was a beast playing in the SEC, what does that tell you?
Also, potential is all that a college player can be evaluated upon, as he's never even played a single snap in the NFL!  When he's played in the NFL for a few seasons, then, lets talk production.
College production = potential NFL production
By the way, there's lots of college football players that had great production but ended up busts in the NFL; not saying Kerrigan will be one, but just saying.

To be clear, if Kerrigan falls to our laps, I'd love for him to be our pick, as DE is our greatest need and he is a pure DE, not a hybrid like Houston. But I think he's right up there with Kerrigan

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#21 : February 01, 2011, 12:18:13 PM

To be clear, if Kerrigan falls to our laps, I'd love for him to be our pick, as DE is our greatest need and he is a pure DE, not a hybrid like Houston. But I think he's right up there with Kerrigan
Houston has only been playing OLB for one season. He's basically the same size as Kerrigan, so it's hard to say one is a "pure DE" and one isn't. The only difference was the philosophies of their coaches.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

chad1336

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#22 : February 01, 2011, 12:23:33 PM

To be clear, if Kerrigan falls to our laps, I'd love for him to be our pick, as DE is our greatest need and he is a pure DE, not a hybrid like Houston. But I think he's right up there with Kerrigan
Houston has only been playing OLB for one season. He's basically the same size as Kerrigan, so it's hard to say one is a "pure DE" and one isn't. The only difference was the philosophies of their coaches.
Well, that's true.  He was a pure DE a year ago and then they changed to a 3-4 last year.  Thanks for correction.  Of course, that could change at the combines when we get the official weigh ins.  Lets hope he keeps the weight on.

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#23 : February 01, 2011, 01:33:34 PM

Not likely to matter. Kerrigan had a fantastic senior bowl and confirmed what many thought about him. I'd love him to fall but if we get him its because we move up and get him.

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JDouble

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#24 : February 01, 2011, 01:43:13 PM

Not likely to matter. Kerrigan had a fantastic senior bowl and confirmed what many thought about him. I'd love him to fall but if we get him its because we move up and get him.

Actually other than looking like an underwear model at the weigh in, all the reports I've read say he had a very average senior bowl week. Most sites have him ranked at around the 18th top prospect now.


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#25 : February 01, 2011, 02:13:14 PM

Not likely to matter. Kerrigan had a fantastic senior bowl and confirmed what many thought about him. I'd love him to fall but if we get him its because we move up and get him.

Actually other than looking like an underwear model at the weigh in, all the reports I've read say he had a very average senior bowl week. Most sites have him ranked at around the 18th top prospect now.

Calling him "very average" at the Senior Bowl shows you have an agenda... Without quoting insider articles, suffice it to say that PR thinks Kerrigan had a great senior bowl. Actually I can't remember reading anyone that didn't think he had a great week. Also, you can try to spin it but being the 18th overall prospect is bad when we pick at 20?

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#26 : February 01, 2011, 02:22:13 PM

Piecing together various reports, Kerrigan had a solid week, but guys like Jordan and Miller had great weeks and went from being in the same conversation with Kerrigan to jumping ahead of him. Being the #18 prospect isn't bad at all, it just means you wait for him to fall to #20 and don't trade up because they value isn't there.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Detrimental

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#27 : February 01, 2011, 02:25:46 PM

After the combine, Kerrigan will be a fringe top 25 pick. Houston, Quinn, Miller, Bowers, Smith, and Jordan are going to shoot up.

JDouble

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#28 : February 01, 2011, 02:32:42 PM

Not likely to matter. Kerrigan had a fantastic senior bowl and confirmed what many thought about him. I'd love him to fall but if we get him its because we move up and get him.

Actually other than looking like an underwear model at the weigh in, all the reports I've read say he had a very average senior bowl week. Most sites have him ranked at around the 18th top prospect now.

Calling him "very average" at the Senior Bowl shows you have an agenda... Without quoting insider articles, suffice it to say that PR thinks Kerrigan had a great senior bowl. Actually I can't remember reading anyone that didn't think he had a great week. Also, you can try to spin it but being the 18th overall prospect is bad when we pick at 20?


PR jumped the gun and has a man crush that is clouding their judgment. Every other site was saying he looked good but not great, while PR was declaring him a top 10 pick. Please, find me ONE other site that says Kerrigan blew up the Senior Bowl and/or is a top 10 pick.

And just because he is rated 18th doesn't mean he will be drafted 18th. That's not how it works buddy. It shows he is considered a mid to late 1st round pick by most and not a top ten pick as PR thinks.

CBS Sports - 20th overall
ESPN Insider - 18th overall
FFToolbox - 19th overall
FootballsFuture - 13th overall
DraftNasty - 31st overall
Mel Kiper - 13th overall
NFLMocks - 17th overall
DraftCountdown - 17th overall
DraftZoo - 7th best DE
WalterFootball - 7th best DE


Detrimental

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#29 : February 01, 2011, 02:36:35 PM

Jdouble is absolultey right. Nobody has that dude as a top 10 pick.

PR just has a huge man-crush.
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