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GameTime

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#30 : February 01, 2011, 05:43:31 PM

do we really want to draft a DE at 20 who doesnt have a great first step?

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#31 : February 01, 2011, 06:31:54 PM

do we really want to draft a DE at 20 who doesnt have a great first step?
They don't care. Obviously, Ryan Kerrigan wouldn't be everyone's #1 choice.

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#32 : February 01, 2011, 07:02:42 PM

i really dont care who's our #1.  i just wonder about the longterm potential of a DE without a great first step.

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#33 : February 01, 2011, 07:23:11 PM

His strength, play recognition, and pass rush moves are all quality. But IMO he doesn't look like an every down right end. He doesn't have much of a first step at all...you kinda need that against NFL LT's. Otherwise they can just anchor down on the bullrush and inside moves and know that they can handle your outside rush.

Reminds me of a former Buc LE....Marcus Jones. We actually picked up Jones with the 22nd pick in the first round in '96. He was an underachiever for us, but did have a few quality seasons and even got us 13 sacks one year. Then got de-railed by injuries.

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#34 : February 01, 2011, 07:39:27 PM

It seems like every individual DE thread there are multiple people in love with the guy the thread is dedicated towards, the ultimate case of beggars not being choosers imo. I was like that last year when it came to the '10 class of WR's, I wanted everyone because frankly our WR corps prior to the draft just flat out stunk.

But I just find myself not being like that with the DE's this year. Maybe it's because I know a 1st is on the line this year? With a 1st practically locked up in DT last year? I don't know.

I will be unhappy if we don't draft Da'Quan Bowers, Robert Quinn, or Aldon Smith with out 1st round pick. If none of them are available at #20, I hope we look at other positions, truthfully. If we do take a DE I didn't list, I really hope he works out and someone is bumping this thread 8-9 months from now to make me eat crow. I will gladly do it because that means the guy is doing really well.


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#35 : February 01, 2011, 08:31:19 PM

Clayborn best compares to Aaron Kaapman in my view.  This is why, I think think Clayborn can be a succesful pro, as speed isn't everything (eg Gaines Adams). His inconsistent production is a legit gripe, but his character is a model citizen other than the altercation with the cabby that tossed a racial slur his way. Kerrigan isn't bad, but I prefer Clayborn over him.


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#36 : February 01, 2011, 09:56:31 PM

I don't think there is a chance this guy does not translate to the NFL. Clayborn does not have a great first step and does not possess elite athleticism, but he always gets there. His strength, hands, closing speed, play recognition, and run containment are better than guys that are currently projected to be top 10 picks. Speed and athleticism is not something that will get you by in the NFL. It's great to have those things, but OT's in the NFL recover a heck of a lot better than college ones do. Eventually, you need to learn to utilize some moves. Clayborn already knows them all.


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#37 : February 01, 2011, 11:47:09 PM

It seems like every individual DE thread there are multiple people in love with the guy the thread is dedicated towards, the ultimate case of beggars not being choosers imo. I was like that last year when it came to the '10 class of WR's, I wanted everyone because frankly our WR corps prior to the draft just flat out stunk.

But I just find myself not being like that with the DE's this year. Maybe it's because I know a 1st is on the line this year? With a 1st practically locked up in DT last year? I don't know.

I will be unhappy if we don't draft Da'Quan Bowers, Robert Quinn, or Aldon Smith with out 1st round pick. If none of them are available at #20, I hope we look at other positions, truthfully. If we do take a DE I didn't list, I really hope he works out and someone is bumping this thread 8-9 months from now to make me eat crow. I will gladly do it because that means the guy is doing really well.
Just out of curiosity, do you believe there are players at other positions that would grade out higher than Kerrigan, Watt, Clayborn, or Jordan at the #20 spot?  This seems to be a draft that is very deep at the DE position, and just because they may be the 4,5, or 6th rated player at their position, they would still grade out higher than the top rated players at other positions such as RB, TE, C, MLB, and S.  After the top few offensive players are off the board, there seems to be a larger dropoff than there is at the DE position.  Just my 2 cents.

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#38 : February 02, 2011, 09:17:25 AM


Just out of curiosity, do you believe there are players at other positions that would grade out higher than Kerrigan, Watt, Clayborn, or Jordan at the #20 spot?  This seems to be a draft that is very deep at the DE position, and just because they may be the 4,5, or 6th rated player at their position, they would still grade out higher than the top rated players at other positions such as RB, TE, C, MLB, and S.  After the top few offensive players are off the board, there seems to be a larger dropoff than there is at the DE position.  Just my 2 cents.


Other than Pouncey or Sherrod, whats left at 20 are on the same level as the DE that may be available.

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#39 : February 02, 2011, 09:36:57 AM

It seems like every individual DE thread there are multiple people in love with the guy the thread is dedicated towards, the ultimate case of beggars not being choosers imo. I was like that last year when it came to the '10 class of WR's, I wanted everyone because frankly our WR corps prior to the draft just flat out stunk.

But I just find myself not being like that with the DE's this year. Maybe it's because I know a 1st is on the line this year? With a 1st practically locked up in DT last year? I don't know.

I will be unhappy if we don't draft Da'Quan Bowers, Robert Quinn, or Aldon Smith with out 1st round pick. If none of them are available at #20, I hope we look at other positions, truthfully. If we do take a DE I didn't list, I really hope he works out and someone is bumping this thread 8-9 months from now to make me eat crow. I will gladly do it because that means the guy is doing really well.
Just out of curiosity, do you believe there are players at other positions that would grade out higher than Kerrigan, Watt, Clayborn, or Jordan at the #20 spot?  This seems to be a draft that is very deep at the DE position, and just because they may be the 4,5, or 6th rated player at their position, they would still grade out higher than the top rated players at other positions such as RB, TE, C, MLB, and S.  After the top few offensive players are off the board, there seems to be a larger dropoff than there is at the DE position.  Just my 2 cents.

I agree completely.  This draft is stocked with DE's, if Dominick truly did plan it this way then he's brilliant.  I'm stating my desire to take Clayborn at 20 if he's available because I think there has a better chance to turn out to be either great or very good than the other prospects.  That said, there are probably 6 DE's in this draft that grade out as first round picks and any one of them should be our pick before going to another position that likely isn't going to be a more talented guy anyway. 

As sure things go, for me I can't remember a guy that looked as Can't miss as Clayborn as an NFL prospect.  Not to say he's the best pass rusher in the draft, but he's a decent pass rusher with all the moves and power plus he does everything else well, (except that first step) and he's a leader of his football team which you can't say about the majority of DE prospects.  At least not the kind of leader Clayborn is, I mean the defense looks to him on the field to lead.  Thats rare in itself at his position.

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#40 : February 02, 2011, 09:39:06 AM

I admit that Clayborn might not translate to a tremendous NFL pass rusher but dam he's stout agaist the run and should be an improvement over the long haul in rushing the passer.  I see us using him at both LDE and RDE depending on the situation.  He's super tough so if we draft him I think he's an every down guy who you bring in a speed rush guy on passing downs and slide him over to the other side. 

I know two things we badly need to improve if we're going to get better:

1) Pass rush
2) Stoping the run.


I'd rather have a guy who can improve both aspects of our team especially when you consider drafting a guy that high you'll be inclined to make him an every down player.  I'm sorry but some of the speed rushers aren't going to help us when we need to stop the run which we have got to do better on next year if we're going to do anything.
I agree.  Folks are focusing too much on sacks.


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#41 : February 02, 2011, 09:45:33 AM

His strength, play recognition, and pass rush moves are all quality. But IMO he doesn't look like an every down right end. He doesn't have much of a first step at all...you kinda need that against NFL LT's. Otherwise they can just anchor down on the bullrush and inside moves and know that they can handle your outside rush.

Reminds me of a former Buc LE....Marcus Jones. We actually picked up Jones with the 22nd pick in the first round in '96. He was an underachiever for us, but did have a few quality seasons and even got us 13 sacks one year. Then got de-railed by injuries.

I don't see him as an every down RE either.  I mean he can rush the passer from there but I think there will be times when we'd rather slide him over but my point is he's an every down player who will help us in all phases.

Maybe physically like Marcus Jones.... but intagibles, leadership, football IQ.... No way. 

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#42 : February 02, 2011, 10:11:57 AM

Clayborn is my 3rd favorite choice in the 1st. My only problem with him is the fact that one game he'll look like an absolute monster and the next game it'll seem like he's only mild interested. I'd rather have a B guy who you know will give 100% on all plays than an A guy who will show up when he feels like it.

If i'm wrong he is a high character guy that won't quit on a play i'll eat my words and welcome him to the team.

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#43 : February 02, 2011, 10:14:17 AM

My first choice is Kerrigan due to intangibles, but I'd be okay with Clayborn at 20 if we can get Sheard, Romeus or another speed rusher later.

We need help primarily on the RDE side, but also need help opposite side.

I've got a lot of faith in this regime's process...  and for that reason, I'll trust them to get the right guy regardless.


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#44 : February 02, 2011, 10:20:13 AM

Clayborn is my 3rd favorite choice in the 1st. My only problem with him is the fact that one game he'll look like an absolute monster and the next game it'll seem like he's only mild interested. I'd rather have a B guy who you know will give 100% on all plays than an A guy who will show up when he feels like it.

If i'm wrong he is a high character guy that won't quit on a play i'll eat my words and welcome him to the team.
He was made a permanent team captain due to his work etthic in 2009, and all of his scouting reports prior to this season say he plays with a non-stop motor.  Not sure what happened this year, other than I know he saw a lot more double teams.  I don't know if his conditioning was sub-par, if he had a nagging injury, or just became complacent.  That's something that I'm sure the F.O. will look into and figure out before drafting him.  If they draft him, than I would assume all of that checks out for them.
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