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1Va bucsfan

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#60 : February 02, 2011, 12:53:48 PM

Doesn't look to thin to me. Dude is an animal in the weight room and has great football strength.

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#61 : February 02, 2011, 12:57:43 PM

stop looking at stats.....clayborn is an absolute monster.....he throws people around and is violent with his arms...he's very stout at the poin t of the tack, and he controls the o lineman and not the other way around. He knows how to beat tackles even if they shut down his first move. He also brings an attitude and swagger that a guy like kerrigan lacks


So he's yet another guy that is great but doesn't put up great numbers. I see how that works.

Look, college numbers are always goofy to some extent but the drop in production can't be ignored, nor can the lack of production in 75% of his college campaigns. The draft is about risk and he seems to have more than most plus his upside isn't Dwight Freeny, Jared Allen levels, it feels more like Justin Smith.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#62 : February 02, 2011, 01:10:51 PM

Justin Smith ain't bad for the #20 pick, but the problem is Clayborn's downside is a lot lower. You wouldn't use the #20 pick on Antonio Smith.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#63 : February 02, 2011, 01:50:29 PM

Daquan Bowers only had 1 good year, Robert Quinn only had 1 good year, Cameron Jordan and J.J. Watt have never had even had double digit sacks. 

Quinn was suspended so his production was non-existent. It wasn't like he played and didn't produce.
Bowers scares me for the same reason BTW. Still, getting better as you play is a fairly common pattern with players. Falling off the table like clayborn did isn't.
Jordan and Watt aren't pass rushers, they're 5 technique players not 43 ends so I'd not hink they'd bee seen as pass rushers anyways.

I'm not sure why people assume 2009 was what he was. 3 out of 4 years say he's JAG. Would you draft him based on 2010 in the first round?

Begining to wonder if you're hiding an agenda here.  I've already pointed out that its unrealistic to expect a kid out of high school to produce at the college level as a freshman.  Even though it sometimes happens I think most would agree thats an unrealistic expectation.  Guys like Kerrigan did, great... I don't think being a 4 year contributor in college is all that much of a boost to your draft status when so many high draftpicks aren't playing at that level for all four years of college. 

Anyway, what I'm saying is that when I watched Clayborn as a SR he still looked nearly as dominant on tape.  Obviously his stats were down but he was still stout against the run and making plays on the field including lots of presure that does not show up in the stats you used.  I don't see a dropoff like you try to point out with your stats.

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#64 : February 02, 2011, 02:03:50 PM

Justin Smith ain't bad for the #20 pick, but the problem is Clayborn's downside is a lot lower. You wouldn't use the #20 pick on Antonio Smith.

I don't see that.  Everyone's downside is the same.  You're a bust and you wash out of the league in 3 years.  I just don't see how you could watch Clayborn and not see how difficult it would be for him to not be able to do some really positive things that would keep him in the legue for a long time.  I see Clayborn as a failed NFL football player still contributing to a team in shoring up their run D and lasting 8 to 10 years in the legue.  Thats as a total failure.  (Barring significant injury of course) He's just too tough, too physical to not help your defense. 

To call this guy anything but a safe pick is stretching it. 

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#65 : February 02, 2011, 02:07:52 PM

There is no such thing as a 'safe pick'.

JMHO.

Who knew how good it would feel as a fan when we now know what it\'s like for our team to have a direction, an attitude, and dare I say an offense?.  

Good time to be a Bucs fan.

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#66 : February 02, 2011, 02:16:32 PM

There is no such thing as a 'safe pick'.

JMHO.

I agree with you... I know I've already biased myself by watching a bunch of game film and spouting off about the guy but he does so many things well I just don't see how he ends up a complete failure.

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#67 : February 02, 2011, 02:34:53 PM

Justin Smith ain't bad for the #20 pick, but the problem is Clayborn's downside is a lot lower. You wouldn't use the #20 pick on Antonio Smith.

I don't see that.  Everyone's downside is the same.  You're a bust and you wash out of the league in 3 years.  I just don't see how you could watch Clayborn and not see how difficult it would be for him to not be able to do some really positive things that would keep him in the legue for a long time.  I see Clayborn as a failed NFL football player still contributing to a team in shoring up their run D and lasting 8 to 10 years in the legue.  Thats as a total failure.  (Barring significant injury of course) He's just too tough, too physical to not help your defense. 

To call this guy anything but a safe pick is stretching it.
Yes, a bust is a bust, but I was trying to illustrate the difference between average players at different positions. If Justin Smith is the best comparison Clayborn could hope to be, then Antonio Smith is the average version. Likewise if Jevon Kearse is the best Aldon Smith could hope to be, then Darren Howard may be the average version. An average speed end like Darren Howard is more valuable than an average power end like Antonio Smith.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#68 : February 03, 2011, 10:19:15 AM

Justin Smith ain't bad for the #20 pick, but the problem is Clayborn's downside is a lot lower. You wouldn't use the #20 pick on Antonio Smith.

I don't see that.  Everyone's downside is the same.  You're a bust and you wash out of the league in 3 years.  I just don't see how you could watch Clayborn and not see how difficult it would be for him to not be able to do some really positive things that would keep him in the legue for a long time.  I see Clayborn as a failed NFL football player still contributing to a team in shoring up their run D and lasting 8 to 10 years in the legue.  Thats as a total failure.  (Barring significant injury of course) He's just too tough, too physical to not help your defense. 

To call this guy anything but a safe pick is stretching it.
Yes, a bust is a bust, but I was trying to illustrate the difference between average players at different positions. If Justin Smith is the best comparison Clayborn could hope to be, then Antonio Smith is the average version. Likewise if Jevon Kearse is the best Aldon Smith could hope to be, then Darren Howard may be the average version. An average speed end like Darren Howard is more valuable than an average power end like Antonio Smith.

I see where you're going but valuable to who?  To the Bucs after the last several seasons not being able to stop the run or get a pass rush I'm not sure that holds true.  Its true we need a pass rush but we've already gone that route with Gaines Adams and you see how that went.   I can see drafting a guy like that again not giving us anything next year.  So you bring in an Aldon Smith or Kerrigan and you already don't expect much help in the run game.  Now you're expecting ten sacks just to add something to your team.  Say whoever we get pulls a gains Adams and gives us 3 or 4 sacks.  Now he's not helping our pass rush or our rush D and you're keeping him on the field just hoping he learns something? 

No thanks, we've been there before.  Give me a guy like Clayborn who's gonna help us almost no matter what.  We need some toughness on our front 4 I know we all saw that last year.  We were not very tough.

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#69 : February 03, 2011, 10:24:04 AM

Kerrigan or Clayborn.

I want attitude, power and motor on the ends to match up with McCoy, Price and Miller.

Who knew how good it would feel as a fan when we now know what it\'s like for our team to have a direction, an attitude, and dare I say an offense?.  

Good time to be a Bucs fan.

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#70 : February 06, 2011, 06:40:16 AM

What about explosion and a mean streak? Whoever we land I hope he has bad intentions whenever he gets into the backfield or any ball carrier!

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#71 : February 06, 2011, 09:06:31 AM

I was turned off to Clayborn because of this years stats and showing lack of production but am warming to this guy and his nasty attitude when he gets to the qb or rb......am getting more confident in Morris and Dominiks picks as it seems they know what they are doing and are a good judge of talent......so although I have likes and dislikes am inclined not to be to disappointed whoever they pick  as this draft though weak is strong at DE......imo we are assured of landing a  good DE with our first pick......Imagine if we drafted one and signed a top DE in FA too.....wow lookout NFL here we come.
: February 06, 2011, 09:09:07 AM 4bucs

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#72 : February 06, 2011, 09:22:34 PM

What about explosion and a mean streak? Whoever we land I hope he has bad intentions whenever he gets into the backfield or any ball carrier!

Main thing that turned me on to Clayborn is his nasty streak.  There is even a personal foul in that video. (he was the second guy to the Qb and still managed to nearly put his fist through the back of the QB's helmet... from the front)  After watching tape of the guy the worst thing I can say about him is that we can expect a personal foul or two. Probably even some fines and being a Buc fan who holds Warren Sapp up as maybe the best we've ever had, I can appreciate that.  WE WERE NOT TOUGH LAST SEASON.  we need to toughen up and this is our guy if he's there at 20.
: February 06, 2011, 09:25:36 PM jbear

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#73 : February 07, 2011, 01:48:22 AM

Dalbuc-
I agree with the numbers you have posted on here but the only thing that makes me think that Clayborn could be a good pick is that EVERY draft expert has him in the top 5 DE's (this is Kiper, McShay, Bunting, and Mayock). No other DE can say that other than Bowers (Mayock has Quinn 5th). I have to think that all of these people have seen something in their film study to think his game will translate to the pros.
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