Planned Parenthood exposed

[Biggs3535]

Murder is a legal term.

You're going in circles here, Chief.

Pro-Life people are against the killing of innocent people of any kind.  Which brings us back to your ignorant original argument.  They aren't anti-woman's-choice or pro-government-interference-of-woman's-choice, they are Pro-Life and view abortion as murder.  Whereas Pro-Choice people don't view the unborn baby as a life, but a subset of the woman.

I told you before "Murder" is a legal term and as such a judicial issue. What do you want from me? Horse...water...drink. I thought your ilk had already taken this issue to court and lost. Stop crying.

You seem to have an unusual right to ownership of women's birth sacks.

Since the part you were misunderstanding has been explained, you've gone beyond ignorant and entered the realm of "Morgan".

[The Anti-Java]

Just venting here.

Abortion is soooooooo wrong.  And there only argument is   "its a womans right to choose"?  Choose what?  Murdering a child or not?   Give me a freakin break.

[Chief Joseph]

I believe it's you pro lifers whos kids end up at planned parenthood in the first place.  You create the problem with your own intolerence and fear then **CENSORED** and moan about the people trying to do something about your poor, scared daughters health and well being.  I think abortion is horrible and disgusting but the biggest reason it happens so often in this country is not because of liberal minded people pushing it on people, its because of ultra conservative parents vilifying sex and birth control in the first place.

No, actually abortions tend to not fall on high minded religious types. A shockingly high % of abortions, IIRC 40+%, are given to repeat offenders who apparently didn't learn their lesson the last time despite the counseling that occurs around abortions by PP. Abortion rates in places like NYC/NJ with "strong" sex education programs are not better than places that don't have "strong" programs like TX or LA so lack of information tends to not matter.

Are these repeat offenders the type of people that we want to force parenthood on?

[jbear]

You know very well that Planned Parenthood doesn't support prostitution.

And what does ACORN have to do with Planned Parenthood except they're both organizations that the rightwingers despise?

Here I am agreeing with morgan.  I knew it was bound to happen someday.

[jbear]

Planned parenthood does some good things.  I'll avoid the abortion issue and just mention the birth control and counceling.  Maybe you don't want them counceling your kids but then maybe you should do a better job of talking about sex with them.  I know more than one pro lifer who'd lock her daugther in a closet for a year if she caught her with a condom.  Durango is right about the disconnect with many of you.  I'd prefer my daughter not have sex till she's 30 and married but she's damned well gonna know that should she decide to do it she sure as hell better be safe. 

The pro-choice side always says this crap is a medical decision right? Well there is NO medical procedure that can take place w/o parential consent but abortion. There is no prescription drug you can get without parental consent but birth control pills. Neither are stone cold safe, hell my child couldn't get something as lightweight as a tattoo w/o my permission but something as invasive and, yes, dangerous as an abortion...go to town. Sorry, that's not right.

Are you upset about the birth control pills or the abortion?  Make a choice then we can talk.  This idea that everything they do is bad is nonsensical.  If you don't want to let them push birth control how are you gonna **CENSORED** about the abortions?  This is the sad state the pro-life lobby is in.  Too many special interests, most of them extreme.  The rational minority that would be open to the real solution (birth control, even for kids) is overwhelmed by the religious fruits. 

Someone plese type Amoral again so I can have a chuckle.  This is ridiculous... "sex is amoral unless you're married, intend to make babies, can support your children and are going to take them to a good church. " You people are lost in a world that no longer exists.  I can't help but think of the people who get upset about the white race ending in 100 or 200 years... as if their genes won't still be there.

[jbear]

I believe it's you pro lifers whos kids end up at planned parenthood in the first place.  You create the problem with your own intolerence and fear then **CENSORED** and moan about the people trying to do something about your poor, scared daughters health and well being.  I think abortion is horrible and disgusting but the biggest reason it happens so often in this country is not because of liberal minded people pushing it on people, its because of ultra conservative parents vilifying sex and birth control in the first place.

No, actually abortions tend to not fall on high minded religious types. A shockingly high % of abortions, IIRC 40+%, are given to repeat offenders who apparently didn't learn their lesson the last time despite the counseling that occurs around abortions by PP. Abortion rates in places like NYC/NJ with "strong" sex education programs are not better than places that don't have "strong" programs like TX or LA so lack of information tends to not matter.

A shockingly high percentage that I'm probably safe in saying is 90% drug addicts and prostitutes.  People who've been swept under the rug for longer than you and I have been around. 

Pro life lobby:  "We don't want anyone to have an abortion... we also don't want to fix any of the problems that cause them and we certainly don't want to pay for any of it!  We absolutely, under no circumstances want any people under the age of 18 to know anything about safe sex or AMORAL activities and we'd like to be sure that having an abortion is never an option... again just don't expect us to pay for the kid "



]

[jbear]

I believe it's you pro lifers whos kids end up at planned parenthood in the first place.  You create the problem with your own intolerence and fear then **CENSORED** and moan about the people trying to do something about your poor, scared daughters health and well being.  I think abortion is horrible and disgusting but the biggest reason it happens so often in this country is not because of liberal minded people pushing it on people, its because of ultra conservative parents vilifying sex and birth control in the first place.

No, actually abortions tend to not fall on high minded religious types. A shockingly high % of abortions, IIRC 40+%, are given to repeat offenders who apparently didn't learn their lesson the last time despite the counseling that occurs around abortions by PP. Abortion rates in places like NYC/NJ with "strong" sex education programs are not better than places that don't have "strong" programs like TX or LA so lack of information tends to not matter.

Are these repeat offenders the type of people that we want to force parenthood on?

Wasted time when I could have just reposted this very sane argument. 

If you hate abortion... FIX THE WORLD!  I'll help you try to do it.  Unfortunately for most of you, you'll have to start with yourselves. 

[Chief Joseph]

Not most.

They are all under sin; as it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one.

[jbear]

Not most.

They are all under sin; as it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one.

Yes... You got me.  That goes for me and you too illuminator.  I'm just saying that I think the most sane way to end abortion is through education and prevention.  eradicating poverty and crime wouldn't hurt either.

[dalbuc]

Are you upset about the birth control pills or the abortion?  Make a choice then we can talk.  This idea that everything they do is bad is nonsensical.  If you don't want to let them push birth control how are you gonna **CENSORED** about the abortions?  This is the sad state the pro-life lobby is in.  Too many special interests, most of them extreme.  The rational minority that would be open to the real solution (birth control, even for kids) is overwhelmed by the religious fruits. 

Someone plese type Amoral again so I can have a chuckle.  This is ridiculous... "sex is amoral unless you're married, intend to make babies, can support your children and are going to take them to a good church. " You people are lost in a world that no longer exists.  I can't help but think of the people who get upset about the white race ending in 100 or 200 years... as if their genes won't still be there.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Both are medical procedures and neither requires parental consent despite known risks. Neither should be given to a minor w/o parental consent.

As for religious fruit, you are barking up the very, VERY wrong tree with me.  Because I'm not locked into a ideological world view I see these as exactly what they are - medical issues that should be treated like all other medical issues. Just to be clear I'm for: morning after pills and birth control but what I won't have is society deciding that certain types of medical procedures require my consent and some don't.

BTW, you want the word immoral, amoral isn't the same thing.

[dalbuc]

A shockingly high percentage that I'm probably safe in saying is 90% drug addicts and prostitutes.  People who've been swept under the rug for longer than you and I have been around. 

Pro life lobby:  "We don't want anyone to have an abortion... we also don't want to fix any of the problems that cause them and we certainly don't want to pay for any of it!  We absolutely, under no circumstances want any people under the age of 18 to know anything about safe sex or AMORAL activities and we'd like to be sure that having an abortion is never an option... again just don't expect us to pay for the kid "

You'd actually be wrong, again, about the prossies being a prime offender, drugs don't know never saw that demographic breakout.

You cry for safe sex education that that is a proven loser of an argument as it doesn't matter. Look at the teen preggers rates in any city/state that has a strong sex ed program and the rates have changed with the basic rates in society at large - and actually usually run a bit higher.  Education doesn't cause that increase - it isn't like kids are suddenly getting struck with the idea of sex but that it doesn't matter.   The problem isn't that kids don't know if tab A enters slot B that you can get pregnant, the problem is a lack of concern with that potential outcome.

[jbear]

Are you upset about the birth control pills or the abortion?  Make a choice then we can talk.  This idea that everything they do is bad is nonsensical.  If you don't want to let them push birth control how are you gonna **CENSORED** about the abortions?  This is the sad state the pro-life lobby is in.  Too many special interests, most of them extreme.  The rational minority that would be open to the real solution (birth control, even for kids) is overwhelmed by the religious fruits. 

Someone plese type Amoral again so I can have a chuckle.  This is ridiculous... "sex is amoral unless you're married, intend to make babies, can support your children and are going to take them to a good church. " You people are lost in a world that no longer exists.  I can't help but think of the people who get upset about the white race ending in 100 or 200 years... as if their genes won't still be there.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Both are medical procedures and neither requires parental consent despite known risks. Neither should be given to a minor w/o parental consent.

As for religious fruit, you are barking up the very, VERY wrong tree with me.  Because I'm not locked into a ideological world view I see these as exactly what they are - medical issues that should be treated like all other medical issues. Just to be clear I'm for: morning after pills and birth control but what I won't have is society deciding that certain types of medical procedures require my consent and some don't.

BTW, you want the word immoral, amoral isn't the same thing.

Since when is giving out condoms a medical procedure?  Even birth control pills are not a medical procedure. 

No, you're not a fruit... You just happen to be against abortion for anyone, want to keep kids away from the hazzards of birth control and you want to force parenthood on the very last people who should have kids.  Very rational. 

[jbear]

A shockingly high percentage that I'm probably safe in saying is 90% drug addicts and prostitutes.  People who've been swept under the rug for longer than you and I have been around. 

Pro life lobby:  "We don't want anyone to have an abortion... we also don't want to fix any of the problems that cause them and we certainly don't want to pay for any of it!  We absolutely, under no circumstances want any people under the age of 18 to know anything about safe sex or AMORAL activities and we'd like to be sure that having an abortion is never an option... again just don't expect us to pay for the kid "

You'd actually be wrong, again, about the prossies being a prime offender, drugs don't know never saw that demographic breakout.

You cry for safe sex education that that is a proven loser of an argument as it doesn't matter. Look at the teen preggers rates in any city/state that has a strong sex ed program and the rates have changed with the basic rates in society at large - and actually usually run a bit higher.  Education doesn't cause that increase - it isn't like kids are suddenly getting struck with the idea of sex but that it doesn't matter.   The problem isn't that kids don't know if tab A enters slot B that you can get pregnant, the problem is a lack of concern with that potential outcome.

I don't know if you've ever been in a bad neighborhood... I mean really been in one enough to see how vicious the cycle is. It's generation after generation never quite able to get out.  Crime, drug use and ignorance begets more crime, drug use and ignorance.  I don't need statistics to be sure that people from these neighborhoods use Planned Parenthood at a higher rate than sixteen year old middle class suburban girl... 

You can get statistics to say anything you please.... Like for example, have you taken into account that the teen preggers rate in city/state with a strong sex ed program was most likely high to begin with?  Find me statistics that say education and prevention doesn't work, (that you're looking for them is the root of the problem) and I'll find some from liberal group that say it does.

[kevabuc]

I believe it's you pro lifers whos kids end up at planned parenthood in the first place.  You create the problem with your own intolerence and fear then **CENSORED** and moan about the people trying to do something about your poor, scared daughters health and well being.  I think abortion is horrible and disgusting but the biggest reason it happens so often in this country is not because of liberal minded people pushing it on people, its because of ultra conservative parents vilifying sex and birth control in the first place.

No, actually abortions tend to not fall on high minded religious types. A shockingly high % of abortions, IIRC 40+%, are given to repeat offenders who apparently didn't learn their lesson the last time despite the counseling that occurs around abortions by PP. Abortion rates in places like NYC/NJ with "strong" sex education programs are not better than places that don't have "strong" programs like TX or LA so lack of information tends to not matter.

Are these repeat offenders the type of people that we want to force parenthood on?

Carefull Illuminator, you are about to enter the realm of eugenics.

Wouldn't a more proven liberal method of this be done by just establishing another sin tax. Say about a 13% tax on the overall cost of a child from birth to emancipation, paid on the Federal return in the year of birth and then the lost revenue from abortions can be factored in to the annual budget as another reason for any continued deficits and debt.

[dalbuc]

Since when is giving out condoms a medical procedure?  Even birth control pills are not a medical procedure. 

No, you're not a fruit... You just happen to be against abortion for anyone, want to keep kids away from the hazzards of birth control and you want to force parenthood on the very last people who should have kids.  Very rational.

 
You are wrong on almost every count here.
 
Condoms, I've got no issues there. BCP are in fact a prescription drug so that should be under parental control just like any other prescription drug. Not sure why that i so hard to understand.
 
I'm also not against abortion, per se. I've got no issues with first trimester abortions for example  - I'm not on the "spark of the divine at conception" or "it will become human trip" either so morning after pills are super-hunky dory. What I'm not willing to do is to look a second and third trimester children who have reached a point in embryonic development where they have some form of awareness and sensation (if you doubt this your second sonogram the child will response to taps on the mothers belly) and pretend that they don't at least deserve as much protection as your dog - can can't tear your dog's head open and suck out it's brains on a whim. 
 
I'm not forcing parenthood on anyone. They've chosen to take actions that they know can lead to this outcome. In the end, why is it any different to say I'm forcing them to be parents by not allowing the termination of their child at 6 months post-conception than you saying that they can't terminate it at 10 months post-conception?