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#15 : February 14, 2011, 01:26:48 PM

The fact is nobody expected Rodgers to be this good, no one expected Tom Brady to be this good, no one expected all the players drafted after their pick to be that goood but they are.
Tom Brady is a completely different argument than Rodgers. If you want to compare Brady to someone, it would be more like Marques Colston. No one really thought they'd be good. With Rodgers, everyone agreed he had a high level of talent. While no one was sure just how good he'd be, everyone knew he had at least a decent chance to be good. He's more like Chris Johnson. Everyone knew he was a 1st rounder, but they just may not have expected him to be this good.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#16 : February 14, 2011, 02:06:05 PM

Same could be said for Ryan Leaf. Most thought he would be good too.

Dan Marino was picked #27. Were 25 teams kicking themselves for not picking him (I say 25 because Elway was picked in that draft too).

Many thought Freeman has "bust" written all over him.

The draft is a crap-shoot especially when it comes to the QB position. Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, David Carr, Tim Couch, and Matt Leinart were all "pro-ready" according to the majority of NFL scouts.

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#17 : February 14, 2011, 02:50:59 PM

Dan Marino was picked #27. Were 25 teams kicking themselves for not picking him (I say 25 because Elway was picked in that draft too).

Yes, they were.  That's the point.  The team that needed a QB and passed on Marino were definitely kicking themselves.  Now you're catching on.



Many thought Freeman has "bust" written all over him.

Kind of a different example with him.  Most scouts were giving him a 2nd round grade, based most on his physical attributes.  Freeman was never given top-5 consideration like Rodgers was.



The draft is a crap-shoot especially when it comes to the QB position. Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, David Carr, Tim Couch, and Matt Leinart were all "pro-ready" according to the majority of NFL scouts.

No coach that drafted any of those player still have their job.


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#18 : February 14, 2011, 02:57:54 PM

They drafted Chris Simms in 2003 to be the future QB.
Wasn't Simms a McKay pick whom Gruden never wanted?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#19 : February 14, 2011, 04:36:36 PM

People like to throw this out there as a way to trash the previous regime. That's the whole subtle point of these type of threads...

But it fails. Gruden won us a Super Bowl, 3 district championships, and the winningest coach in Bucs history. Until Raheem wins a Super Bowl, he doesn't measure up. It's also a bit of apples and oranges in this debate. Gruden didnt make all the personnel decisions. A lot of it was Bruce Allen that made the final calls. There are LOTS of coaches out there that make excellent coaches but terrible executives and talent evaluators. If you want an equal comparison, it would have to be Dominik vs. Allen. But it's too early to do that. Brian Price spent the year on IR. McCoy looks promising but he was on IR. Benn has a ways to go to be worth a 2nd round pick. He got lucky with Mike Williams because who knew he would be there in round 4? And Blount he didnt even draft. Dominik also made a mistake with drafting a punter and the whole Derrick Ward thing. This regime also made mistakes with Jagodzinski and Bates. And screwed up the QB situation at the start of 2009. They held a QB competition for the pre-season and neither QB would be on the roster past week 3. Josh Freeman coming in and beating the Packers and Saints that year is what saved Raheem's butt.

You can make all the excuses of how one coach or GM was better than another. But in the end the only thing that matters is wins.

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#20 : February 14, 2011, 04:43:46 PM

They drafted Chris Simms in 2003 to be the future QB.
Wasn't Simms a McKay pick whom Gruden never wanted?

Thus beginning the bewildering career of Chris Simms with the Bucs.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#21 : February 14, 2011, 04:46:47 PM

IIRC....if we looked at draft analysis from this time of '05...Rodgers was considered a solid choice for #1 overall. By the time of the draft, Smith had replaced him and on draft day he just fell down the board. In hindsight, it really was strange. It's not even like Marino who had some rumors planted about him. Rodgers just got worse as time went on in the evaluation process.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#22 : February 14, 2011, 05:37:13 PM

People like to throw this out there as a way to trash the previous regime.

I don't think the writer of the article gives two craps about the previous regime.  This topic is point 1A of why it was time to move from GruAllen - terrible drafting.



Gruden didnt make all the personnel decisions. A lot of it was Bruce Allen that made the final calls.

So Bruce Allen decided to draft Carnell Williams over Aaron Rodgers?  Sure...

I'd agree that Allen had final say over the draft, but it's pretty clear that Gruden had an extremely large say - and he wanted Williams over Rodgers.



If you want an equal comparison, it would have to be Dominik vs. Allen. But it's too early to do that.

No, it's already pretty clear that Dominik has brought in more talent in 2 seasons than Allen did in his entire tenure with the Bucs.



You can make all the excuses of how one coach or GM was better than another. But in the end the only thing that matters is wins.

It appears that you're the only one making excuses.


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#23 : February 14, 2011, 05:50:29 PM

He has a way of doing that.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

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#24 : February 14, 2011, 06:09:11 PM

Gruden won us a Super Bowl, 3 district championships, and the winningest coach in Bucs history. Until Raheem wins a Super Bowl, he doesn't measure up.
So you wouldn't have a problem if Morris goes 6 years without a playoff victory?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#25 : February 14, 2011, 07:43:03 PM

I post a legit article with plenty of interesting information and some get all worked up into a frenzy. Wow..... the Gruden fan boys are so sensitive.

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#26 : February 14, 2011, 09:11:02 PM

I post a legit article with plenty of interesting information and some get all worked up into a frenzy. Wow..... the Gruden fan boys are so sensitive.
Yea, your intentions were pure as the driven snow... never thought this could work out this way.  LMAO

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#27 : February 14, 2011, 09:12:15 PM

The fact is nobody expected Rodgers to be this good, no one expected Tom Brady to be this good, no one expected all the players drafted after their pick to be that goood but they are.
Tom Brady is a completely different argument than Rodgers. If you want to compare Brady to someone, it would be more like Marques Colston. No one really thought they'd be good. With Rodgers, everyone agreed he had a high level of talent. While no one was sure just how good he'd be, everyone knew he had at least a decent chance to be good. He's more like Chris Johnson. Everyone knew he was a 1st rounder, but they just may not have expected him to be this good.
Ryan Leaf would be a potential comparison or perhaps Todd Blackledge

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#28 : February 14, 2011, 09:15:57 PM

while gruden did a lot of great things while he was here, he wasnt perfect.  and passing on rodgers was a big mistake.  but its water under the bridge now.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#29 : February 14, 2011, 09:51:09 PM

I post a legit article with plenty of interesting information and some get all worked up into a frenzy. Wow..... the Gruden fan boys are so sensitive.
Yea, your intentions were pure as the driven snow... never thought this could work out this way.  LMAO

what ever are you insinuating? ** grin slyly **

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