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OneTruth

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#555 : March 07, 2011, 09:14:24 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/trinity.html

The Trinity Doctrine/Dogma Exposed

I've always had difficulty with the "trinity" doctrine and concept. Even after twenty years of being a born again Christian, I couldn't seem to grasp the concept. Other Christians claimed they had an understanding of it but they admitted it was very difficult to articulate.

Robert Ingersoll makes the following comments in Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67:

Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third.

Each of these persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both.

The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son.

The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two.

So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God. According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three, and three time one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is equally peculiar: if we add two to one we have but one. Each one equal to himself and to the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.
 
Christians are faced with a dilemma. The Bible says in the Old Testament, "I, even I, am the Lord; and besides me there is no savior" (Isa. 43:11). "Salvation belongeth unto the Lord . . ." (Psalms 3:8. "For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour . . ." (Isaiah 43:3). According to the Old Testament, only God can be the Savior. In order for Jesus Christ to be the Savior, he must also be God.
Trinity advocates use:

"I and the Father are one" (John 10:30);

". . .he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 17:22);

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God" (John 1"1);

". . . that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me and I in Him"

". . .he that hath seen me hath seen the Father. . ." (John 14:9)

". . .Holy Father keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."John 17:11

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 3:8,9.

The Bible has many more verses denying the Trinity than it has confirming it:


"Why callest me good? There is none good but one, that is God" (Matthew 19:17)

". . .for my Father is greater than I. . ." (John 14:28)

"My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

"O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." (Matthew 26:39)

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46)

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)

"Who has gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God" (Peter 3:22)

There are, of course, more scriptures. The passages quoted are a representative of the opposing concepts.

Here is the dilemma. Christians know that in order for Jesus to be the savior of mankind, he must also be God. The bible says so. If he is not God, then he cannot be the savior. His death would be meaningless. So Christians have invented the Trinity to explain Christ's divinity. He is man. He is God. He is both. He must be in order to be the savior. Unfortunately, he is ambivalent at best. Sometimes he claims to be one with God. Sometimes he admits God knows things which he doesn't know and does things which he cannot do. Christians go to nearly any length to prove the Trinity including the declaration that its a "mystery" and we "just don't have the mind to understand it". Is the bible the perfect, inerrant word of God? The Christian created Trinity doctrine and the contradictions which must accompany the doctrine sound a resounding "No"! So how did the Trinity doctrine/dogma come into existence?

The origins of the Trinity doctrine are appalling. Like most historic issues pertaining to Christianity, there was much deceit and bloodshed. Many lives were lost before 'Trinitarianism' was finally adopted.

As many Christians know, the word "trinity" does not appear in the Bible. It doesn't because it is a doctrine which evolved in early Christianity. It was a manipulated, bloody and deadly process before it finally arrived as an 'accepted' doctrine of the church.


CONSTANTINE - THE TRINITY PROCESS BEGINS
Flavius Valerius Constantius (c. 285-337 AD), Constantine the Great, was the son of Emperor Constantius I. When his father died in 306 AD, Constantine became emperor of Britain, Gaul (now France), and Spain. Gradually he gained control of the entire Roman empire.

Theological differences regarding Jesus Christ began to manifest in Constantine's empire when two major opponents surfaced and debated whether Christ was a created being (Arius doctrine) or not created but rather coequal and coeternal to God his father (Athanasius doctrine).

The theological warfare between the Arius and Athanasius doctrinal camps became intense. Constantine realized that the his empire was being threatened by the doctrinal rift. Constantine began to pressure the church to come to terms with its differences before the results became disastrous to his empire. Finally the emperor called a council at Nicea in 325 AD to resolve the dispute.

Only a fraction of existing bishops, 318, attended. This equated to about 18% of all the bishops in the empire. Of the 318, approximately 10 were from the Western part of Constantine's empire, making the voting lopsided at best. The emperor manipulated, coerced and threatened the council to be sure it voted for what he believed rather than an actual consensus of the bishops.

The present day Christian church touts Constantine as the first Christian emperor, however, his 'Christianity' was politically motivated. Whether he personally accepted Christian doctrine is highly doubtful. He had one of his sons murdered in addition to a nephew, his brother in law and possibly one of his wives. He continued to retain his title of high priest in a pagan religion until his death. He was not baptized until he was on his deathbed.


THE FIRST TWO THIRDS OF THE TRINITY - THE NICAEAN CREED
The majority of bishops voted under pressure from Constantine for the Athanasius doctrine. A creed was adopted which favored Athanasius's theology. Arius was condemned and exiled. Several of the Bishops left before the voting to avoid the controversy. Jesus Christ was approved to be "one substance" with God the Father. It is interesting that even now, the Eastern and Western Orthodox churches disagree with each other regarding this doctrine, the Western churches having had no influence in the 'voting'.

Two of the bishops who voted pro-Arius were also exiled and Arius's writings were destroyed. Constantine decreed that anyone caught with Arius documents would be subject to the death penalty.

The Nicaean Creed read as follows:

I believe in one God: the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God: begotten of his Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, through whom all things were made. . .

Even with the adoption of the Nicaean Creed, problems continued and in a few years, the Arian faction began to regain control. They became so powerful that Constantine restored them and denounced the Athanasius group.

Arius's exile was ended along with the bishops who sided with him. It was now Athanasius who would be banished.

When Constantine died (after being baptized by an Arian Bishop), his son reinstated the Arian philosophy and bishops and condemned the Athanasius group.

In the following years the political foes continue to struggle and finally the Arians misused their power and were overthrown. The religious/political controversy caused widespread bloodshed and killing. In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople. Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state.

Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.


THE ATHANASIUS CREED COMPLETES THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
The Athanasius (Trinitarian) Creed was finally established in (probably) the 5th century. It was not written by Athanasius but adopted his name. It stated in part:



"We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."
By the 9th century the creed was established in Spain, France and Germany. It had taken centuries from the time of Christ for the trinity doctrine to catch on. Government and church politics were the reasons the trinity came into existence and became church orthodoxy.

As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed.


THE CHRISTIAN TRINITY - ONE MORE IN THE PARADE OF TRINITIES
Why the original clamor to elevate Jesus and the holy spirit to positions equal to the Christian/Judaeo God? Simply, the pagan world was quite used to having "three gods" or "trinities" as their deities. The trinity satisfied the majority of Christians who had come from pagan backgrounds. Christianity didn't get rid of the pagan trinities, it adopted them as it did so many other pagan traditions.


OTHER TRINITIES
.
Hinduism embraced the triune godhead of Brahma, the god of creation ; Vishnu the god of maintenance and Siva the god of destruction. One of Egypt's many trinities was Horus, Isis and Osiris.

The founders of the early Christian church had no idea that the Trinity concept would evolve, be voted upon by politicians, forced by emperors and eventually become an integral part of Christianity such as we have it today. Is it any wonder that its "difficult" to explain?

Is there one Christian God or Three In One? The majority of Christian churches hold to the Trinity doctrine but there are still Christian church holdouts who reject the teaching. We now enjoy the freedom to believe either doctrine but at risk of ridicule if we choose non-Trinitarian beliefs.

Just like at Burger King, "you can have it your way".


: March 07, 2011, 09:23:57 PM OneTruth

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#556 : March 07, 2011, 09:23:02 PM

Bradentonian that is exactly what I have been trying to say.

IMO the crucial data that negates the truine godhead is in every translation I have ever read. Seeing that some knowledgeable folks here give more credibility to the KJV - I have read it. My wife currently has that version of the Bible and she uses it exclusively. I know JW's that only use that Bible - even when knocking on doors. I am not a JW however, so when my family goes to church I read from the NIV Bible. Most of the time I bring along the NEW World Translation (Jehovah Witness Version) and compare the 3 with one another. Never have I found there to be more than trivial difference though never conveying seperate meanings.
 
I think the "Bible version" debate is a none issue.
I totally believe you didn't read what White Tiger had written...You are ignoring it purposely...

White Tiger that was the best break down I have ever read...Very in depth...No J.W. translations has ever been able to counter what you have written...Nice Job...OBD

Thanks OBD - I tried to approach it as though onetruth honestly did not know about the differences between the two translations. Sometimes error comes from not knowing, sometimes it is a determined path.

Of course, I thought the argument that the JW's commissioning a second attempt at translating the Bible, was proof enough that the NWT was not acceptable for study or debate...but I did extend the courtesy.

Hopefully onetruth questions the decisions made that were based on the error filled translation that underpins their religion - and if he does, he will do it alone.

As Illuminator stated earlier - we don't win folks over in these discussions - we just work out our own salvation...

(...or something like that...;) ).

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#557 : March 07, 2011, 09:26:37 PM

can you comment on the above post - which is not by a JW, but a concerned born again Christian. The trinity is nonsense, I dont care how you slice it up and how much mustard you put on it. It is a disturbing dogma that needs to broken. the truth will prevail no matter how hard your hearts are...

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#558 : March 07, 2011, 09:40:26 PM

unbelievable.

What do you do when your translation is thoroughly debunked?

Turn to the Watchtower!

Sorry, an angelfire/watchtower website is quite possibly an even weaker argument than when you were using a completely debunked, error-filled, false Bible.

...it doesn't matter how many words you use,

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#559 : March 07, 2011, 09:41:31 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/trinity.html

The Trinity Doctrine/Dogma Exposed

I've always had difficulty with the "trinity" doctrine and concept. Even after twenty years of being a born again Christian, I couldn't seem to grasp the concept. Other Christians claimed they had an understanding of it but they admitted it was very difficult to articulate.

Robert Ingersoll makes the following comments in Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67:

Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third.

Each of these persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both.

The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son.

The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two.

So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God. According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three, and three time one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is equally peculiar: if we add two to one we have but one. Each one equal to himself and to the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.
 
Christians are faced with a dilemma. The Bible says in the Old Testament, "I, even I, am the Lord; and besides me there is no savior" (Isa. 43:11). "Salvation belongeth unto the Lord . . ." (Psalms 3:8. "For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour . . ." (Isaiah 43:3). According to the Old Testament, only God can be the Savior. In order for Jesus Christ to be the Savior, he must also be God.
Trinity advocates use:

"I and the Father are one" (John 10:30);

". . .he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 17:22);

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God" (John 1"1);

". . . that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me and I in Him"

". . .he that hath seen me hath seen the Father. . ." (John 14:9)

". . .Holy Father keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."John 17:11

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 3:8,9.

The Bible has many more verses denying the Trinity than it has confirming it:


"Why callest me good? There is none good but one, that is God" (Matthew 19:17)

". . .for my Father is greater than I. . ." (John 14:28)

"My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

"O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." (Matthew 26:39)

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46)

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)

"Who has gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God" (Peter 3:22)

There are, of course, more scriptures. The passages quoted are a representative of the opposing concepts.

Here is the dilemma. Christians know that in order for Jesus to be the savior of mankind, he must also be God. The bible says so. If he is not God, then he cannot be the savior. His death would be meaningless. So Christians have invented the Trinity to explain Christ's divinity. He is man. He is God. He is both. He must be in order to be the savior. Unfortunately, he is ambivalent at best. Sometimes he claims to be one with God. Sometimes he admits God knows things which he doesn't know and does things which he cannot do. Christians go to nearly any length to prove the Trinity including the declaration that its a "mystery" and we "just don't have the mind to understand it". Is the bible the perfect, inerrant word of God? The Christian created Trinity doctrine and the contradictions which must accompany the doctrine sound a resounding "No"! So how did the Trinity doctrine/dogma come into existence?

The origins of the Trinity doctrine are appalling. Like most historic issues pertaining to Christianity, there was much deceit and bloodshed. Many lives were lost before 'Trinitarianism' was finally adopted.

As many Christians know, the word "trinity" does not appear in the Bible. It doesn't because it is a doctrine which evolved in early Christianity. It was a manipulated, bloody and deadly process before it finally arrived as an 'accepted' doctrine of the church.


CONSTANTINE - THE TRINITY PROCESS BEGINS
Flavius Valerius Constantius (c. 285-337 AD), Constantine the Great, was the son of Emperor Constantius I. When his father died in 306 AD, Constantine became emperor of Britain, Gaul (now France), and Spain. Gradually he gained control of the entire Roman empire.

Theological differences regarding Jesus Christ began to manifest in Constantine's empire when two major opponents surfaced and debated whether Christ was a created being (Arius doctrine) or not created but rather coequal and coeternal to God his father (Athanasius doctrine).

The theological warfare between the Arius and Athanasius doctrinal camps became intense. Constantine realized that the his empire was being threatened by the doctrinal rift. Constantine began to pressure the church to come to terms with its differences before the results became disastrous to his empire. Finally the emperor called a council at Nicea in 325 AD to resolve the dispute.

Only a fraction of existing bishops, 318, attended. This equated to about 18% of all the bishops in the empire. Of the 318, approximately 10 were from the Western part of Constantine's empire, making the voting lopsided at best. The emperor manipulated, coerced and threatened the council to be sure it voted for what he believed rather than an actual consensus of the bishops.

The present day Christian church touts Constantine as the first Christian emperor, however, his 'Christianity' was politically motivated. Whether he personally accepted Christian doctrine is highly doubtful. He had one of his sons murdered in addition to a nephew, his brother in law and possibly one of his wives. He continued to retain his title of high priest in a pagan religion until his death. He was not baptized until he was on his deathbed.


THE FIRST TWO THIRDS OF THE TRINITY - THE NICAEAN CREED
The majority of bishops voted under pressure from Constantine for the Athanasius doctrine. A creed was adopted which favored Athanasius's theology. Arius was condemned and exiled. Several of the Bishops left before the voting to avoid the controversy. Jesus Christ was approved to be "one substance" with God the Father. It is interesting that even now, the Eastern and Western Orthodox churches disagree with each other regarding this doctrine, the Western churches having had no influence in the 'voting'.

Two of the bishops who voted pro-Arius were also exiled and Arius's writings were destroyed. Constantine decreed that anyone caught with Arius documents would be subject to the death penalty.

The Nicaean Creed read as follows:

I believe in one God: the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God: begotten of his Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, through whom all things were made. . .

Even with the adoption of the Nicaean Creed, problems continued and in a few years, the Arian faction began to regain control. They became so powerful that Constantine restored them and denounced the Athanasius group.

Arius's exile was ended along with the bishops who sided with him. It was now Athanasius who would be banished.

When Constantine died (after being baptized by an Arian Bishop), his son reinstated the Arian philosophy and bishops and condemned the Athanasius group.

In the following years the political foes continue to struggle and finally the Arians misused their power and were overthrown. The religious/political controversy caused widespread bloodshed and killing. In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople. Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state.

Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.


THE ATHANASIUS CREED COMPLETES THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
The Athanasius (Trinitarian) Creed was finally established in (probably) the 5th century. It was not written by Athanasius but adopted his name. It stated in part:



"We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."
By the 9th century the creed was established in Spain, France and Germany. It had taken centuries from the time of Christ for the trinity doctrine to catch on. Government and church politics were the reasons the trinity came into existence and became church orthodoxy.

As you have seen, the Trinitarian doctrine came from deceit, politics, a pagan emperor and warring factions who brought about death and bloodshed.


THE CHRISTIAN TRINITY - ONE MORE IN THE PARADE OF TRINITIES
Why the original clamor to elevate Jesus and the holy spirit to positions equal to the Christian/Judaeo God? Simply, the pagan world was quite used to having "three gods" or "trinities" as their deities. The trinity satisfied the majority of Christians who had come from pagan backgrounds. Christianity didn't get rid of the pagan trinities, it adopted them as it did so many other pagan traditions.


OTHER TRINITIES
.
Hinduism embraced the triune godhead of Brahma, the god of creation ; Vishnu the god of maintenance and Siva the god of destruction. One of Egypt's many trinities was Horus, Isis and Osiris.

The founders of the early Christian church had no idea that the Trinity concept would evolve, be voted upon by politicians, forced by emperors and eventually become an integral part of Christianity such as we have it today. Is it any wonder that its "difficult" to explain?

Is there one Christian God or Three In One? The majority of Christian churches hold to the Trinity doctrine but there are still Christian church holdouts who reject the teaching. We now enjoy the freedom to believe either doctrine but at risk of ridicule if we choose non-Trinitarian beliefs.

Just like at Burger King, "you can have it your way".


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#560 : March 07, 2011, 09:50:54 PM

And...so what. He makes a relevant argument about the facts of this case.

Look, more than likely the reason he is athiest is because of this retarded ridiculous absurdity description of God you call the triune godhead. The trinity pushes more people away from God than everything Satan has ever done. The truly sincere people that are earnestly searching for the truth know BS when they hear it. Thats why when someone spits the trinity crap out - they tend to keep searching...too bad because the truth IS in Christianity and Jesus is their saviour...but the trinity is confounding it simply will not be accepted by people seeking truth.

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#561 : March 07, 2011, 09:55:00 PM

too bad we will have to agree to disagree. I believe if you look at ALL the information my argument stands on its own merrits. I am not trying to be right...rather I would like to promote truth for the people diligently searching for it. No hard feelings...good night all

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#562 : March 07, 2011, 10:05:00 PM

too bad we will have to agree to disagree. I believe if you look at ALL the information my argument stands on its own merrits. I am not trying to be right...rather I would like to promote truth for the people diligently searching for it. No hard feelings...good night all
Your arguments just need to be fine tuned. No one wants to be right here I believe they just want the right information and the way it was derived. Your promotion for truth for the people who diligently seek it should always point to God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit...Not of our Wisdom but of The Lord Jehovah's...

Proverbs 3 (King James Version)

Proverbs 3

 1) My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:

 2) For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

 3)Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

 4) So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.

 5) Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 6) In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 7) Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

 8) It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

 9) Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

 10) So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

I thought I would leave you with this...OBD


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#563 : March 07, 2011, 10:07:46 PM

peace toward men of good will. God Bless

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#564 : March 07, 2011, 10:32:59 PM

And...so what. He makes a relevant argument about the facts of this case.

No, he makes unfounded accusations and delivers conjecture -


Look, more than likely the reason he is athiest is because of this retarded ridiculous absurdity description of God you call the triune godhead. The trinity pushes more people away from God than everything Satan has ever done. The truly sincere people that are earnestly searching for the truth know BS when they hear it. Thats why when someone spits the trinity crap out - they tend to keep searching...too bad because the truth IS in Christianity and Jesus is their saviour...but the trinity is confounding it simply will not be accepted by people seeking truth.

Yes, I'm sure that's it - or, since he's not a JW, either perhaps you need more words.

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#565 : March 07, 2011, 11:14:45 PM

And...so what. He makes a relevant argument about the facts of this case.

No, he makes unfounded accusations and delivers conjecture -

In fairness, he makes misleading statements as well.  Take:

Quote
Two of the bishops who voted pro-Arius were also exiled and Arius's writings were destroyed.

This presumably refers to Theonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais.  They were bishops at the First Council of Nicea who voted agains the adoptation of the Creed, and therefore pro-Arius.  So in and of itself, the quoted statement is true.  Of course, they were the ONLY bishops who voted against the adoptation of the Creed.  That's ... somewhat less than implicit in the quoted statement.

I'll also note that for someone who was supposedly so dead-set on the Council condemning Arius, Constatine would go on to become awfully friends with Eusebius of Nicodemia, not to mention his ordering Alexander of Constantinople to receive Arius himself.  I think the more generally accepted view of Constantine's role in Nicea was that he didn't really care what they decided so long as they decided on something.  He was more a politician than a theologian.

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#566 : March 07, 2011, 11:29:58 PM

Thank you Acacius - and since you introduced Arius, lets take a look at why the JW's would want his heresy promoted:

(since we've devolved to using anglefire.com and truejehovawitness.com - thought I'd use one they're familiar with)

(born c. 250, Libya died 336, Constantinople, Byzantine Empire) Christian priest and heretic whose teachings gave rise to the doctrine of Arianism. He was leader of a Christian community near Alexandria, Egypt, where he preached doctrines that combined Neoplatonism with a literal, rationalist interpretation of biblical texts. By asserting the absolute oneness and immutability of God, he called into question the divinity of Christ. His views were publicized through his major work, Thalia (c. 323). In 325 the Council of Nicaea declared him a heretic. He was striving to compromise his views and win readmission to the church when he died suddenly in Constantinople. The Arian heresy posed a threat to Christian orthodoxy for several centuries.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/arius#ixzz1FykvG8B4

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#567 : March 07, 2011, 11:39:10 PM

It doesnt matter what translation you use - thr triune godhead is illogical, unrealistic, and impossible.

IF you anthropomorphize God, then yes. But the creator of the entire universe is not logical, because logic is the study of human thought, and God is not human. And everything God does/did is unrealistic FOR A HUMAN. And is it anymore "impossible" than creating the universe?

Your reasoning is "I can't do it, and I can't figure out how it is done, therefore it is not true". And that reasoning doesn't hold water.
This sounds eerily familiar and I believe Illuminator pegged it ...

not fathomable by mere mortals.

My favorite cop-out.

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#568 : March 08, 2011, 07:48:39 AM

unbelievable.

What do you do when your translation is thoroughly debunked?

Turn to the Watchtower!

Sorry, an angelfire/watchtower website is quite possibly an even weaker argument than when you were using a completely debunked, error-filled, false Bible.

...it doesn't matter how many words you use,


nobody is debating Bible version or religious affiliations but you. My point has always been the trinity is absurd because it is impossible. I presented all the evidence to support my opinions. Your reply? Of course you think that way because your Bible version was written by uneducated mountain people from New Guinea. Ok then lets use your version of the Bible. Your reply? Your Bible is garbage! I mind as well go out and discuss this with the trees...ill get the same result

take a communications course son, it'll help you to articulate your argument better. Then we'll discuss this further properly.
: March 08, 2011, 07:58:27 AM OneTruth

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#569 : March 08, 2011, 10:12:13 AM

Thank you Acacius - and since you introduced Arius, lets take a look at why the JW's would want his heresy promoted:

(since we've devolved to using anglefire.com and truejehovawitness.com - thought I'd use one they're familiar with)

(born c. 250, Libya died 336, Constantinople, Byzantine Empire) Christian priest and heretic whose teachings gave rise to the doctrine of Arianism. He was leader of a Christian community near Alexandria, Egypt, where he preached doctrines that combined Neoplatonism with a literal, rationalist interpretation of biblical texts. By asserting the absolute oneness and immutability of God, he called into question the divinity of Christ. His views were publicized through his major work, Thalia (c. 323). In 325 the Council of Nicaea declared him a heretic. He was striving to compromise his views and win readmission to the church when he died suddenly in Constantinople. The Arian heresy posed a threat to Christian orthodoxy for several centuries.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/arius#ixzz1FykvG8B4

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