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OneTruth

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#30 : February 16, 2011, 07:22:49 AM

I dont see it like that.

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#31 : February 16, 2011, 07:26:30 AM

I meant people who really uphold the beliefs of Jesus and are not just taking up a seat in the church. That means when they go to work, at home with the kids, at the grocery store...you are always walking the walk.
You know the same as I do what jesus preached. A lot of people do not adhere to those standards, that is what I meant by TRUE. Not my opinion of Christianity.
Which ones "really uphold the beliefs of Jesus and are not just taking up a seat in the church" is a judgement.  Which ones are "always walking the walk" is a judgement.  You are either making judgements or bantering with adages you have heard over your lifetime.  I don't see a second option.

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#32 : February 16, 2011, 11:55:03 AM

Interesting - Christianity's deeper meaning?

Does this mean Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough to cover all sin - so we need more rules - or that Christ's sacrifice was so incredible that we continue to find more meaning the longer we serve him?

The Gnostics tried it, the Muslims are still "struggling" to do it, and a whole host of "johnny-come-lately's" are still at it.

It isn't difficult, it isn't mystical, it isn't complicated.

Anyone who makes it so - is selling something...

I'm not sure I understand what your saying here.  Are you trying to say that as we go on in life with the Lord, that we do NOT come to an understanding of deeper truth?  As I recall I think you are a Christian (I could be wrong) so, I'm not sure what you mean here exactly.  Can you clarify?

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#33 : February 16, 2011, 03:33:54 PM

Anybody got an aspirin?

Col. Klink

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#34 : February 16, 2011, 04:21:26 PM

Interesting - Christianity's deeper meaning?

Does this mean Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough to cover all sin - so we need more rules -

It does make one think, though .... How long was Christ's tribulation that day, from beginning to "death"? Whatever it was, it was enough to cover ALL the sins of ALL the people in the world from that point into infinity?? ... We're talking billions and billions of folks here ...

beardmcdoug

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#35 : February 16, 2011, 04:42:52 PM

Interesting - Christianity's deeper meaning?

Does this mean Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough to cover all sin - so we need more rules -

It does make one think, though .... How long was Christ's tribulation that day, from beginning to "death"? Whatever it was, it was enough to cover ALL the sins of ALL the people in the world from that point into infinity?? ... We're talking billions and billions of folks here ...

hehe, +1


OneTruth

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#36 : February 16, 2011, 06:58:22 PM

Deeper means more profound. The apostle Paul wrote that after youre done drinking milk (the easy things about Christ) then move on to meat and potatoes (harder to digest, adult food).
Really dig down into the data to get additional pearls through meditation and study.

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#37 : February 17, 2011, 06:50:27 AM

Interesting - Christianity's deeper meaning?

Does this mean Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough to cover all sin - so we need more rules -

It does make one think, though .... How long was Christ's tribulation that day, from beginning to "death"? Whatever it was, it was enough to cover ALL the sins of ALL the people in the world from that point into infinity?? ... We're talking billions and billions of folks here ...

hehe, +1

It wasn't the tribulation that covered sin - it was the sacrifice of a perfectly lived life. I mean it's not like he just changed the age of the earth to more accurately fit that of the sun - by 500,000 years is it...amazingly, I don't think any theories have been reset yet from that "adjustment" - so this should be nothing for you to ponder

I do see why you have to keep an open mind though - it seems the tenets of you faith are written in pencil...with a big erasure...

I'm thinking about glass houses right now...hehe.

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The White Tiger

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#38 : February 17, 2011, 06:53:10 AM

Deeper means more profound. The apostle Paul wrote that after youre done drinking milk (the easy things about Christ) then move on to meat and potatoes (harder to digest, adult food).
Really dig down into the data to get additional pearls through meditation and study.

Yes, but it's more like he expounded on pearls already there, it's not like went and brought in synthetic perls of his own making - otherwise why stop? Like Muhammed - you could keep on adding?

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OneTruth

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#39 : February 17, 2011, 06:59:35 AM

^^exactly! pearls that are already there. Like Jehovah being a seperate person from Jesus....which is already in the Biible and stated reasonably, plainly, without confounding minds a thousand times over - yet you reject that basic fact and have the nerve to insinuate I am propugating falsities...wow. You need a break pal.

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#40 : February 17, 2011, 01:09:18 PM

It wasn't the tribulation that covered sin - it was the sacrifice of a perfectly lived life.

He sacrificed a perfectly lived life down here for a perfectly lived life in Heaven ... maybe i misinterpreted "sacrifice", though.

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#41 : February 17, 2011, 01:14:08 PM

We come to know the Lord deeper through the process of His dealing with us, through chastisment, correction, sifting, etc.   Its through the deep work of the cross in our lives that divides between soul and spirit that we come to understand just how desolate we truly are, and just how complete is His place as all things in the new creation, and to see that we have been made partakers of His life that fills all things in that creation.  Its through the process of His dealings with us that we come to truly see the difference between His ways and our ways, His thoughts and our thoughts, and the unbridgable gap between the two.  Its a process of death and ressurection.  Through that process the Lord gives us a fuller measure of Himself and His mind.  The truth is we can read the Bible 100 times over, but until the Lord deals with our flesh, and brings us to a place of total surrender, we will not see, nor understand the deeper meat that is present in the scriptures, because the meat isn't just about words on paper and some clever ways that things are written.  Rather, its about being given a deeper measure of Christ Himself by HIs making our eye single,  by working out double mindedness in us.  When He has done that work in us, then He opens up the floodgates of heaven and pours out the truth regarding the deep parsts of His heart, andwhat He is telling us about it in the scriptures.  In other words, the Scripture is no longer just words on paper that we are trying to figure out, but rather the sciptures become alive as God reveals Himself and His heart to us through the scriptures.  BTW, scripture is one way the Lord reveals Himself to us, but it is not the only way, and I think thats important to note as its important that we understand that we live by the spirit of God, and not by the written word of scripture.

If you believe that the deeper meat of the scriptures is that Jesus Christ and the Father are in fact, not one, then I would say that you are still discerning the scripture with your natural mind, because that is terrible error and one that will have reverberations throughout the rest of your walk, as it causes you to not rightly discern who He is and therefore who you are in Him, as a partaker of His life, but ultimately thats between you and the Lord, and only He can bring you to a place to see the unity of the spirit of God, and the oneness that is present in Him and now in us.  If your desire is for Him, to know Him personally and intimately, and not to just know things and doctrines about Him, then He will show you who He is as He brings you closer to Him through that death and resurrection process, because the fact is that we all think wrongly about the world, and ourselves and God until He brings us through this process of becoming grounded in His thoughts.

Once the Lord has done a deep, breaking, circumsicion work in us like that, then I think it becomes clear that His delivering us from self is a matter of degrees, and to see that there may be areas where I don't see fully, as He sees, but I hold firm to that measure of life that He has given me knowing that in His time He will give me more truth; more of Himself, because Christ is inexhaustible, so we can literally spend our lifetime pursuing more of Him.   

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#42 : February 17, 2011, 01:48:39 PM

If you believe that the deeper meat of the scriptures is that Jesus Christ and the Father are in fact, not one, then I would say that you are still discerning the scripture with your natural mind, because that is terrible error and one that will have reverberations throughout the rest of your walk, as it causes you to not rightly discern who He is and therefore who you are in Him, as a partaker of His life, but ultimately thats between you and the Lord, and only He can bring you to a place to see the unity of the spirit of God, and the oneness that is present in Him and now in us.

If you believe in the concept of The Trinity as a single entity, how do you explain Christ's last words? And as Klink pointed out, where is the sacrifice in an eternal being dying, only to be reborn, as he knew he would? These concepts stand in opposition to each other.

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#43 : February 17, 2011, 08:34:54 PM

If you believe that the deeper meat of the scriptures is that Jesus Christ and the Father are in fact, not one, then I would say that you are still discerning the scripture with your natural mind, because that is terrible error and one that will have reverberations throughout the rest of your walk, as it causes you to not rightly discern who He is and therefore who you are in Him, as a partaker of His life, but ultimately thats between you and the Lord, and only He can bring you to a place to see the unity of the spirit of God, and the oneness that is present in Him and now in us.

If you believe in the concept of The Trinity as a single entity, how do you explain Christ's last words? And as Klink pointed out, where is the sacrifice in an eternal being dying, only to be reborn, as he knew he would? These concepts stand in opposition to each other.

Great point.



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#44 : February 17, 2011, 08:50:50 PM

True Christians

Merely stating what the Bible says regarding the judgment is not judging. True Christians (Matt 7:20, John 13:35) discern what the will of God is & proceed to do it with all of their heart, soul, strength & mind (Matt 22:34-40, Luke 10:25-28). Love is their motivation.

There is only one Judge (God Jehovah) & he has given that authority to his son Christ Jesus (Matt 28:18, John 5:22,27 & 30, 17:2) who is King of the Heavenly Kingdom which will soon to be reigning over the earth, a literal government. -see Mt 6:10, Dan 2:44 & 7:13-14. There will be subjects in this Kingdom (Psalm 37:29, Proverbs 2:21-22, Isaiah 65:17-25, Matt 5:5, 1 Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5:19-21) This kingdom is the theme of the Bible, the means by which God will fulfill his purpose to sanctify his name & vindicate his sovereignty. If you don't believe that the kingdom is important, start at Matt 3:1 and see how many times it is mentioned in the Gospels alone (over 100 times). Yet Christendom claims the kingdom is only in your heart. They also hide God's name Jehovah, by omitting it from their versions & translations of the Bible when it was in the original manuscripts over 7000 times [(Exodus 6:3 & Psalm 83:18 in the King James Version- the older versions only), Matt 6:9, John 17:6, Rom 10:13]. When you begin to unravel the false teachings in Christendom, you start to see how they actually portray him as a cruel God & prevent you from truly getting to know him & his purposes, as well as gaining everlasting life.

Gaining everlasting life requires doing God's will (Matt 7:21-3, 1 Tim 2:4 & 1 John 5:3). This means more than just 'believing' as Christendom claims (Romans 10:2-4) by the way they lean on John 3:16 (read James 2:19 - see, even the demons 'believe' yet they shudder at their judgment). If you examine the original Greek context, one must put their faith into action (James 2:17, 26) to avail themselves of this free gift:

John 3:16 (Contemporary English Version)
"God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die."

By merely reading just to the end of John chapter 3 in verse 36, one can see that obedience is required. There are other requirements & some of them are included in these verses -Matt 16:24, 28:19-20, John 17:3, Acts 5:42, 1 Cor 9:16-17, Col 1:10. These are not 'extra steps' as some who claim to be Christian have often stated.  As you can see, it's not easy to be a true Christian, but the Bible is very clear on the requirements. Again, these are not 'extra steps' (this person knows who I am speaking about. - 1 Tim 6:20-21).

Let the Bible interpret itself without any bias, preconceived ideas (Mark 7:7), traditions (Matt 15:1-11) or philosophies (Col. 2: 8 ) and with God's help you will get to know truth (John 8:32) & be able to become a true Christian - but only if you choose to be. Our Creator, Jehovah God, has created all beings with free will.

Those discerning the times (2 Tim 3:1-7) may decide to closely examine this information to see if a change of course is appropriate for both themselves and their family. -Phil 1:9-11, 2 Tim 2:23-26.
 
1 John 2:17 (Amplified Bible)
"And the world passes away and disappears, and with it the forbidden cravings (the passionate desires, the lust) of it; but he who does the will of God and carries out His purposes in his life abides (remains) forever."
: February 17, 2011, 08:56:26 PM mtnman
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