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Skull and Bones

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#15 : February 25, 2011, 09:13:49 AM

The Bucs had the #4 pick in 2007 and supposedly took the TOP defensive end that year. How did that work out? DE's are too much of a crap shoot to invest several pick on one guy. If a guy is there at no 17 that they really want, then I could see then dealing a 5th or 6th round pick to get him like they did with Freeman but you aren't gonna see Dominik give up a 2nd or even a 3rd to move up for a DE when there are so many decent ones available in this draft.
I get your argument and it does make some sense but look at it this way:  would you rather have Calvin Johnson or Gaines Adams, Aaron Sears, and Sabby?  Suh or McCoy and Price?


tatmanfish

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#16 : February 25, 2011, 09:16:34 AM

I hope its for Quinn. We need a BEAST not a "solid" prospect a la Kerrigan and Clayborn. They don't project as 10-12 sacks per year guys like Smith, Houston, Bowers, and Quinn do.

NFLN is placing Quinn in the top 5 dont think we go that far up

If we trade up its for Kerrigan...no suprise the team is pretty much in love with Kerrigan as they were Freeman and McCoy

I havent seen where the Bucs are in love with Kerrigan. Just because PR is pimping him doesnt mean the Bucs are sold on him. Kerrigan will also likely be gone by 20 if his stock keeps rising. Quinn is dropping in most mocks and is falling to around the 6-10 spot or farther. Unless he blows up the combine, I could see him falling to 10 or so. To get to 10 it could cost the Bucs somewhere in the ballpark of a 3rd and a 4th....up to a 2nd. I think he goes at 11 to the Texans if hes still there. With the switch to the 3-4 and there best pass rusher Williams playing DE, they need a pass rushing OLB to the extent the Bucs need a RE.

Ive said it before, but i think the Skins are the perfect spot at 10 if Quinn makes it that far. They need lots of talent and dont have many picks to work with. They need a QB, but any worthy QB will likely be off the board. The value of that spot based on the chart is a 1st, 3rd, and 4th.

I also think FA(if there is one) will play a large part in how far up the Bucs are willing to go as well. If they can get a few Sean Jones type signings and maybe a little bit bigger signing at positions of need, theres no reason not to explore trading up high enough to get one of the top 2 or 3 DEs in the draft.

There will be LDEs available later in the draft and some in FA as well. The Bucs also have a score of LDE types on the roster whove played serviceably. I also believe a RDE is harder to come by so if you think you can get a good one, you pull the trigger. Greg Spires is easier to find than a Simeon Rice any day of the week.

This draft also loses a lot of depth and talent after the 2nd-3rd round IMO as well. I really dont believe this is a draft where teams will be finding very many gems past then. The only DE that I see that may have any chance of succes that will be drafted after the 2nd is Romeus. Even then, hes going that late because hes a risk due to all the injuries. In other words, I dont think the Bucs will be finding a Mike Williams this year. Counting on late round picks to pan out in a weaker draft isnt a good idea IMO. Look for the closet thing to sure thing early in the draft and hope for anything out of the back end of this draft.



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Skull and Bones

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#17 : February 25, 2011, 09:23:03 AM

cross out last years draft because it was a freak one but go look at drafts from say 2004-2007 so there has been enough time to evaluate the players and see how many 2nd and 3rd rounder never amounted to much.  Its pretty scary.


blind melon

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#18 : February 25, 2011, 09:37:13 AM

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that's all it is... an opinion.

Talking in absolutes makes no sense.

I do think they've identified a couple of players worth trading up for...   and there are a lot of teams with few picks.

I think if the CBA is signed and we get a decent pick for Bryant - we could trade players and picks a team that has a lot of holes and few picks to go and get 'our' guy.

I'll leave it to the experts, who have at this point established that they know what they're doing to decide who those players are...   

If it's me...

I'd swap 1sts with Washington (10) and give them our 4th in 2011 and 3rd in 2012 and a WR (Briscoe?) to get Quinn or Miller. (assuming they drop that far...)

I'd swap 1sts with Miami (15)  and give them our 4th and 6th in 2012 to get Jordan or Smith.

I'd swap 1sts with Jax (16) and give them our 4th  to get Kerrigan.

But what the hell do I know...  this is all fantasy football.

Who knew how good it would feel as a fan when we now know what it\'s like for our team to have a direction, an attitude, and dare I say an offense?.  

Good time to be a Bucs fan.

Detrimental

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#19 : February 25, 2011, 10:19:06 AM

cross out last years draft because it was a freak one but go look at drafts from say 2004-2007 so there has been enough time to evaluate the players and see how many 2nd and 3rd rounder never amounted to much.  Its pretty scary.
Exactly. The people that want to keep picks don't realize how average at BEST this draft class is.

If we keep our picks Bucs should select 2 positions after the DE pick that don't have a high bust rate. I'm hoping the first three picks go

1. Justin Houston DE
2. Ryan Williams RB
3. John Moffitt LG

Rather get Quinn but this will suffice. Williams has skills to be a similar back to Ray Rice and Moffitt is a lock to be a starter. Sign some free agent linebackers to compete with McKenzie, Hayes, and Black.

Skull and Bones

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#20 : February 25, 2011, 10:27:29 AM

cross out last years draft because it was a freak one but go look at drafts from say 2004-2007 so there has been enough time to evaluate the players and see how many 2nd and 3rd rounder never amounted to much.  Its pretty scary.
Exactly. The people that want to keep picks don't realize how average at BEST this draft class is.

If we keep our picks Bucs should select 2 positions after the DE pick that don't have a high bust rate. I'm hoping the first three picks go

1. Justin Houston DE
2. Ryan Williams RB
3. John Moffitt LG

Rather get Quinn but this will suffice. Williams has skills to be a similar back to Ray Rice and Moffitt is a lock to be a starter. Sign some free agent linebackers to compete with McKenzie, Hayes, and Black.
I agree with you whole heartedly.


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#21 : February 25, 2011, 10:43:33 AM

The Bucs also have a score of LDE types on the roster who've played serviceably.


Disagree completely, and it shows in our performance both in the run and rushing the passer.  The LDE's #1 priority is to set the edge and keep contain, and we didn't have a single player that consistently did that well.  How many times did we see McCoy get penetration and White threaten from one edge while the QB just rolled out past our LDE and complete a big pass?


Feel Real Good

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#22 : February 25, 2011, 10:49:53 AM

The Bucs had the #4 pick in 2007 and supposedly took the TOP defensive end that year. How did that work out? DE's are too much of a crap shoot to invest several pick on one guy. If a guy is there at no 17 that they really want, then I could see then dealing a 5th or 6th round pick to get him like they did with Freeman but you aren't gonna see Dominik give up a 2nd or even a 3rd to move up for a DE when there are so many decent ones available in this draft.
I get your argument and it does make some sense but look at it this way:  would you rather have Calvin Johnson or Gaines Adams, Aaron Sears, and Sabby?  Suh or McCoy and Price?
Just because the Bucs have frequently done a poor job evaluating players doesn't mean you need to sell your soul to get a good one. In 2007 they could have just as easily kept all their picks and ended up with Patrick Willis, LaMarr Woodley, and Charles Johnson. I'd take the 3 of them over Calvin Johnson.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Skull and Bones

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#23 : February 25, 2011, 11:04:29 AM

of coarse I'd rather have 3 very good players over one but the odds of getting a pro bowl caliber player in the 2nd or 3rd, especially both in the same draft is a million to 1.


AlstottUpTheGut

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#24 : February 25, 2011, 11:45:45 AM

The Bucs had the #4 pick in 2007 and supposedly took the TOP defensive end that year. How did that work out? DE's are too much of a crap shoot to invest several pick on one guy. If a guy is there at no 17 that they really want, then I could see then dealing a 5th or 6th round pick to get him like they did with Freeman but you aren't gonna see Dominik give up a 2nd or even a 3rd to move up for a DE when there are so many decent ones available in this draft.

Yeah I think Dom sticks to the plan to play to the strength of the draft. I doubt we trade up unless someone that we really like falls to 17 or 18 and we trade a late pick to move up those spots.

1. Donald
2. Bridgewater
3. Landry
5. Abbrederis
6. Lyerla

Watchman

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#25 : February 25, 2011, 01:26:27 PM

We know their going to trade up...

We do?  How do we know this?

tatmanfish

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#26 : February 25, 2011, 05:18:50 PM

The Bucs also have a score of LDE types on the roster who've played serviceably.


Disagree completely, and it shows in our performance both in the run and rushing the passer.  The LDE's #1 priority is to set the edge and keep contain, and we didn't have a single player that consistently did that well.  How many times did we see McCoy get penetration and White threaten from one edge while the QB just rolled out past our LDE and complete a big pass?

Well if you saw White threaten the edge, I saw LEs play serviceably. They didnt play great, they didnt play good, they played servicably. Maybe we have a different definition of serviceable, like we obviously have a different definition for the word threaten.



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