Organized Labor

[spartan]

Oh to open a can of worms first thing in the morning. But seeing as I am a bit bored with the religious argument in the other corner, and I am surprised this hasn't been brought up yet; for or against? Discuss. 

[shawn731]

At times it is needed, but most times it is blow out of proportion by both sides.  I was discussing this with a person the other day about this issue.  He stated that he felt sorry for the GM workers that lost their pensions/jobs/etc.. after the collapse. And I responded that it is unfortunate that they lost their security (pensions/jobs/etc) but at some point they should have realized that something was wrong.  And many people missed that thinking that it can never happen to them because it was "GM."  I stated that facts about the decline of demand for American cars and other factors to that led to their downfall.  I can't sympathize with those who do not open their eyes to their surroundings.  And wait till the shoe to drop to call bloody murder.  They were organized when the dues were paid, but that is not the case now.

On the flip side, there are times that employees need to get together to better their work environment.  We have made it through the industrial revolution, but some tactics/practices still remain.  And a "collective" voice can help address those issues.

I think what is happening in this nation is those with are trying to find a way to keep/gain more of what they have.  And those without are doing the same.  And this struggle has been going since the beginning, but now it’s unsustainable.  The American Dream is not the same for everyone.  For every cook there must be farmer, and so on.  There must be one of each in order for it to work. If we as a nation can accept that we all can’t be millionaires (have it all) we can work on the other problems we face.  But I’m not naive to believe that both sides aren't doing whatever they want by any means to gain. 

[Skull and Bones]

yeah I thought about starting a thread on this as well.  enough with the religious, homosexual and anti Obama threads.  I do believe the days of unions are past.  especially in the public sector.  unions are completely corrupt anyways.  all they care about are getting their money and protecting their interest not what is in the best interest of it's members.

[Col. Klink]

This always reminds me of the diddy "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" ... If businesses hadn't treated employees like crap decades ago, the unions never would have sprung up. That pound of cure is now a thousand pound gorilla that doesn't want to go away.

[OneTruth]

yeah I thought about starting a thread on this as well.  enough with the religious, homosexual and anti Obama threads.  I do believe the days of unions are past.  especially in the public sector.  unions are completely corrupt anyways.  all they care about are getting their money and protecting their interest not what is in the best interest of it's members.

kind of like the government

[shawn731]

yeah I thought about starting a thread on this as well.  enough with the religious, homosexual and anti Obama threads.  I do believe the days of unions are past.  especially in the public sector.  unions are completely corrupt anyways.  all they care about are getting their money and protecting their interest not what is in the best interest of it's members.

kind of like the government

Remember, we are the government.  (i am not sure if i should put this in blue).

[Fitz66]

I have a much bigger objection to Government unions lobbying to politicians for tax payer dollars than I do of a certain company's employees lobbing for a share of their revenue.

A company's employees know that if they ask for too much that they could drive it our of business.  A government employee doesn't have these boundaries.

[John Galt?]

I am against industry wide or nation wide unions. They are too much like a political party, only doing just enough for their constituents to get re-elected, while mostly just stuffing their own pockets.

Now for non-skilled workers to organize on a company by company basis, i have no problem if the sole purpose is to improve conditions and bargaining leverage.

My biggest complaint isn't against unions as much as it is against the special powers and exemptions Congress has given them. It is no longer ownership vs workers in a negotiation, now it is ownership vs Federal Regs+political power+workers which makes it an unbalanced negotiation always favoring one side.

[Morgan]

Shawn - thought the GM pension program was covered by the Pension Guaranty Program - not sure how many people actually lost their pension. Guess the people that never got to retirement age?
http://www.pbgc.gov/

With Wisconsin's financial problems, there's a misconception that organized labor is solely responsible (and thus a scapegoat) for getting the states in the mess, but there are 20+ other "right to work states" that are equally in trouble - http://www.nrtw.org/c/txrtwlaw.htm

Here's a good article on state pension program problems and why they're occurring. 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/03/what_you_need_to_know_about_st.html

[Fitz66]

The bottom line is that companies are wising up and getting out of union states for a reason:  its simply bad business.  If Gov. Scott wants to keep companies from leaving (as they've begun to do there) he'll keep fighting.

Those jobs don't belong to the individual - they belong to the company. 

[Biggs3535]

This dude gets it...

[shawn731]

Morgan-To be honest I never researched who hasnt or have received their pensions.  I used thier ignorance to support my position.

I tell you this much.  Many states will be in the same boat as Wis.  Fla. will be in a fight in the upcoming months.  Unions are not the problem its the ones abusing them/it.  (If our country was more fiscal responsible we wouldnt be in this situation.) 

[John Galt?]

This dude gets it...

Do I really even need to comment on stocking cap dude?

Although I did get a kick out of his whole rant ending in him selling a magazine FOR A PROFIT!

[shawn731]

Biggs that text should be in blue.   That kid is focusing on the wrong thing.  Imagine the owner of the noodle shop being confronted by his employees that they were unionizing.  LOL (Im laughing so hard). Gosh some people... Anyway this is the perfect exmple of some focusing on the wrong issues.  What he needs to understand is that he lacks skills/training/education.  There is a reason some jobs are called entry level. Again to many people are focused on becoming millionaires and do not wish to be anything else.    Its a scary outlook for our future.  I have many older freinds who have stated for a long time that what has been missing in our nation is the sense of Hard Work.  No one wants to do it, but its deperately needed.

[Biggs3535]

Do I really even need to comment on stocking cap dude?

I wish you would.