Mayock's top 5 by position - Updated 3/07/11 - Post Combine

[jeanclaud]

I'm actually warming up to Clayborn, mostly because I have faith in the current FO. If he's the pick at #20, it'll be because Dom and Co. checked him out thoroughly.

[nubcake]

Regarding Clayborn, it's worth noting that there were some rumors about Freeman being lazy. You definitely have to question these rumors, because they don't always have any base. With Freeman, it seemed to be experts simply looking at him, seeing a huge black QB with sometimes mediocre stats and leaving early, and linking him with JaMarcus Russell. Needless to say, that couldn't have been further from the truth. With Clayborn, it's entirely possible that they're simply looking at his decrease in stats from his junior to senior year and assuming it must be due to laziness. That could also be bullcrap. Unfortunately, I think it's harder to know for sure then we'd like to think it is.

[mgchat76]

If Quinn, Clayborn, Watt, Houston, Smith, Bowers, and Jordan all go before 20 and Kerrigan is the 8th DE off the board....he could very well still be the BPA.

In that scenario too many people potentially fall for me to honestly buy into him being the BPA.  I'm just not sold on the bottom of this first round graded DE group.  Give me Pouncy, J. Smith, or Ingram instead.  Plus, some of these cats, like Kerrigan, may not even be RDE material.  With our athletic interior, we are in need of elite pressure more than run support.  I know we need both given our lack of, well, anyone, but I personally would not be willing to give a LDE the nod at #20.  They can be found in FA.  Maybe I'm just struck by Bowers and Quinn and haven't come to terms with guys like Kerrigan, Claborn or Houston but they feel like a miss congeniality award to be honest.  Especially when we could potentially get a guy like Romeus in the 3rd or 4th.  JMO

I would have a hard time placing Pouncey and Smith ahead of Kerrigan.  Besides, guard is a position that can be found later in the draft.  Smith has way too many character concerns and reportedly came off very poorly at the combine.  Ingram would give me pause if he were still there.  I think he'll be a stud, but good RBs can also be found later in the draft.  I don't think there would be any LB at that point that would worth the 20.   I wouldn't be opposed to trading down, but finding a partner can always be tough.  Overall, I think finding a 10 year starter at either DE position would be worth the #20 pick.

[mgchat76]

Regarding Clayborn, it's worth noting that there were some rumors about Freeman being lazy. You definitely have to question these rumors, because they don't always have any base. With Freeman, it seemed to be experts simply looking at him, seeing a huge black QB with sometimes mediocre stats and leaving early, and linking him with JaMarcus Russell. Needless to say, that couldn't have been further from the truth. With Clayborn, it's entirely possible that they're simply looking at his decrease in stats from his junior to senior year and assuming it must be due to laziness. That could also be bullcrap. Unfortunately, I think it's harder to know for sure then we'd like to think it is.

Agreed.  Maybe they're also mistaking him tiring out at the end of games for laziness.  Get him in an NFL strength and conditioning program and we'll see how he is.  The Iowa strength and conditioning coach must have felt the whole team's stamina was lacking, because he has already put 13 kids in the hospital by trying to toughen them up this offseason.

[JDouble]

Regarding Clayborn, it's worth noting that there were some rumors about Freeman being lazy. You definitely have to question these rumors, because they don't always have any base. With Freeman, it seemed to be experts simply looking at him, seeing a huge black QB with sometimes mediocre stats and leaving early, and linking him with JaMarcus Russell. Needless to say, that couldn't have been further from the truth. With Clayborn, it's entirely possible that they're simply looking at his decrease in stats from his junior to senior year and assuming it must be due to laziness. That could also be bullcrap. Unfortunately, I think it's harder to know for sure then we'd like to think it is.

Personally I base my opinion of game footage. At some points Clayborn just seemed to put it in cruise control this year. There were many plays, not just late in games, that he just didn't appear to care. Plays where he shut it down long before the whistle was blown.

My biggest issue with Clayborn is his body type. Sapp showed everyone that you don't have to be chiseled to be great, but Sapp was also one in a million. I look at guys like Watt and Bowers who weight the same or more than Clayborn and are the same height as well...but they are all muscle. Clayborn has less muscle and carries a 20lbs gut to be at that weight. Football players don't have to be GQ models to be good, but when guys look like Watt or Kerrigan or Houston it shows they take their craft serious and are in the best possible shape. What does it say about a guy that could be a 1st round pick at DE but is carrying around an extra 20lbs in fat?

He also has the Erbs Palsy condition in his neck and shoulder and didn't lift at the combine. It just all screams red flag to me. I just can't see taking all that extra risk on a player in the first round that has not been anywhere close to amazing. I think if we take him in the first and he is a bust we deserve it. All the signs are there.

[rgator13]

Mayock has a man crush on JJ Watt

[mgchat76]

Regarding Clayborn, it's worth noting that there were some rumors about Freeman being lazy. You definitely have to question these rumors, because they don't always have any base. With Freeman, it seemed to be experts simply looking at him, seeing a huge black QB with sometimes mediocre stats and leaving early, and linking him with JaMarcus Russell. Needless to say, that couldn't have been further from the truth. With Clayborn, it's entirely possible that they're simply looking at his decrease in stats from his junior to senior year and assuming it must be due to laziness. That could also be bullcrap. Unfortunately, I think it's harder to know for sure then we'd like to think it is.

Personally I base my opinion of game footage. At some points Clayborn just seemed to put it in cruise control this year. There were many plays, not just late in games, that he just didn't appear to care. Plays where he shut it down long before the whistle was blown.

My biggest issue with Clayborn is his body type. Sapp showed everyone that you don't have to be chiseled to be great, but Sapp was also one in a million. I look at guys like Watt and Bowers who weight the same or more than Clayborn and are the same height as well...but they are all muscle. Clayborn has less muscle and carries a 20lbs gut to be at that weight. Football players don't have to be GQ models to be good, but when guys look like Watt or Kerrigan or Houston it shows they take their craft serious and are in the best possible shape. What does it say about a guy that could be a 1st round pick at DE but is carrying around an extra 20lbs in fat?

He also has the Erbs Palsy condition in his neck and shoulder and didn't lift at the combine. It just all screams red flag to me. I just can't see taking all that extra risk on a player in the first round that has not been anywhere close to amazing. I think if we take him in the first and he is a bust we deserve it. All the signs are there.

I'm not saying that Clayborn is going to outwork Kerrigan or Watt in the weight room, but body type is as much about genetics as it is about training.  Also, weight room strength doesn't always translate to functional football strength.  By all accounts Clayborn has some of the most violent, powerful hands in the draft.

[Skull and Bones]

.

My biggest issue with Clayborn is his body type. Sapp showed everyone that you don't have to be chiseled to be great, but Sapp was also one in a million. I look at guys like Watt and Bowers who weight the same or more than Clayborn and are the same height as well...but they are all muscle. Clayborn has less muscle and carries a 20lbs gut to be at that weight. Football players don't have to be GQ models to be good, but when guys look like Watt or Kerrigan or Houston it shows they take their craft serious and are in the best possible shape. What does it say about a guy that could be a 1st round pick at DE but is carrying around an extra 20lbs in fat?

.

yeah, he's a real tub of lard


oh wait, on second thought he looks like half the DEs in the NFL

[JDouble]

We can play the photo game if you wish....





Looks like he's a few cheese burgers away from being a DT to me.

[Skull and Bones]

I think we all agree Charles Johnson would be a great addition to this team

[Detrimental]

I think you completely overacted with his body type. He's not a blob. In that picture he doesn't look like in tip-top shape but that looks like a spring practice photo more than a season one.

He'll be good IMO

[JDouble]

Charles Johnson is stocky for a 4-3 DE....but he's the same height as Clayborn and still 10lbs lighter. Besides that he carries it well on a solid frame. Clayborn has little arms with a big belly.

Also, for all the Clayborn supporters, I have one questions. He didn't participate in the bench press at the combine because he can bench press. Due to his Erbs Palsy he has a special set up the trainers devised for him that is like bench pressing. So my question is how can anyone say his Erbs Palsy won't effect his play when it stops him from being able to bench press? He admittedly can't fully extend his right arm and we want him in the 1st round? Pass.

[bradentonian]

IMO The arm is a real issue and could be significant, and needs to be evaluated by the trainers and medical staff.  That's the only reservation I'd have about loving us picking him in the first.  However you nor I are equipped to make that call.

Here's a relevant quote from a current NFL scout:

"I'll take the one armed ass kicker over most of these guys. His arm is scary. It's noticeable in practice. He's still a damn good player but we'll leave it in the hands of the medical people. "

[JDouble]

He said him self in a recent interview that he can't fully extend his right arm.....I just can't fathom taking a DE in the first round that can't fully extend his right arm.

The punching the cab driver, bailing out of the Senior Bowl at the last minute, being over weight, and a lack luster senior year just add to it...but the neck/arm is definitely the #1 concern.

[Skull and Bones]

plus he likes white women.  http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/01/07/adrian-clayborn-orange-bowl-mvp-ladies-man/
please Dom, don't draft this piece of scum.




btw, this is sarcasm for you slower board members.